Angel : Unpopular Opinions

Didn't Alyson Hannigan once say that SMG began to hate doing the show in Season 3 because is was so much hard work and SMG was 'annoyed' with the show?
She did say this is in an interview during 2013, or actually that SMG was very tired and annoyed by the end and that had started way back in season 3. Sarah however denied this, not giving any sort of more accurate truth.
 
SMG said during filming for the handclasp "I love you" scene in Chosen, she told Joss something like, "If you think we got it, can we just move on? I don't know what Buffy is supposed to be feeling right now."

In which case - it was very good acting and very perceptive of her because the whole of S7 (story and discourse) points to the fact that neither she nor Spike knew what they felt. It wasn't a deficiency in feeling but of language (it's why Touched is called Touched). My unpopular opinion (both of Angel and BtVS) is more of a mantra and it's "ignore anything said by an actor" - they have a professional and commercial investment in the product. In fact, doesn't DB keep his mouth shut? If so - from this perspective, I have far more respect for him than JM.
 
In fact, doesn't DB keep his mouth shut? If so - from this perspective, I have far more respect for him than JM.

Not really he is in record as saying he didn’t understand Cangel and Angel’s true love was Buffy. So they are all guilty of having and sharing opinions. Although JM does talk a lot more bc he is always at cons.
 
Not really he is in record as saying he didn’t understand Cangel and Angel’s true love was Buffy. So they are all guilty of having and sharing opinions. Although JM does talk slot more bc he is always at cons.
DB always appeared to me as someone who doesn't often talk about Buffy or Angel (the series). Even in the time of the series, there isn't so many interviews with him and since the end of the series, he talks about it almost NEVER because like he love saying : he doesn't like talking about the past and prefer being concentrated on what he is doing on his present ! That's something I respect !
 
Not really he is in record as saying he didn’t understand Cangel and Angel’s true love was Buffy. So they are all guilty of having and sharing opinions. Although JM does talk a lot more bc he is always at cons.

Ta for that! 🙁 I don't disagree with what DB says but my position on this is that the idea of "truth" in both series is no more fixed than the idea of death - that things are "true" only to the extent that nothing has been revealed that shows it to be otherwise. The point I was making - and you've probably made it for me - is that they have a vested interest in keeping the battleship going - it keeps fandom alive and sells merchandise. For this reason, I tend to ignore what an actor says and glean what I can from the logic of the text. It doesn't have a mortgage to pay! 🙂
 
Now I'm going to have to dig up SMG interviews. I usually just read/watch them instead of filing them for reference. (Except for cute talk show appearances which I have as a YouTube playlist)

I thought it was common knowledge that DB & SMG are big Bangel shippers. I know I have some of the DB quotes saved on Tumblr since it was the first time I read multiple interviews of his B/A stance. With SMG, there are so many quotes throughout the years I didn't think it needed to be proven.
 
I love lawyer Gunn.

Inside Out is a fantastic episode despite how terrible the arc that follows is.

Angel's vengeance wrath on Wesley was not justified, considering the circumstances.

I agree with the Angel's vengeance being too much. After all, Wesley was trying to save Connor, badly but his intentions were good!
 
Gunn was underused after S2 and should have continued a little of street fighting with his old crew.

I completely love the Connor arc and Connor as a character. I love that Angel got a son and that he grew up faster because are boring in Tv shows and people never take care of them properly. I would have hated seeing the AI team doing their mission while they take turn baby sitting Connor. And I am so happy Connor got his happy ending and that him and Angel found a way to love and forgive each other!
 
Also, not a big fan of Illyria. I understand she was necessary for NFW because Fred would have been a liability but still I much mcuh prefer Fred overall!
 
Didn't Alyson Hannigan once say that SMG began to hate doing the show in Season 3 because is was so much hard work and SMG was 'annoyed' with the show?

It was probably post s3 and because DB wasn't there. SMG has said she believes Angel & Buffy are soulmates and didn't want them to break up. She said, like Buffy, she didn't know if she could continue the show without him. She got so method filming Becoming #2, Prom, and IWRY that they had to close the set and David had to comfort her.
 
It was probably post s3 and because DB wasn't there. SMG has said she believes Angel & Buffy are soulmates and didn't want them to break up. She said, like Buffy, she didn't know if she could continue the show without him. She got so method filming Becoming #2, Prom, and IWRY that they had to close the set and David had to comfort her.
I haven't read the interview but I'd imagine it was more likely a short-lived annoyance while adjusting to a new show dynamic sans DB. I doubt she was constantly annoyed over the next 4 seasons (although I am aware she hated the direction of S6). Then again I have no more info than you do.
 
Unpopular AtS opinions I hold:

-I love Connor and will defend him until the day I die
-I prefer Fred/Gunn to Fred/Wes and find Wesley's feelings for Fred creepy, obsessive and Spike-esque
-I don't like Cordy/Angel as a romantic pairing
-I don't particularly like Lorn
-Season 4 isn't a bad as everyone makes it out to be, in fact, for me it only really derails once Jasmine is "born"
-AtS is a superior show to BtVS
 
Puppet
Puppet
Agree with the last one, definitely prefer AtS :)
MarieVampSlayer
MarieVampSlayer
Yes! Another soldier to defends Connor!
-I love Connor and will defend him until the day I die
-I prefer Fred/Gunn to Fred/Wes and find Wesley's feelings for Fred creepy, obsessive and Spike-esque
-I don't like Cordy/Angel as a romantic pairing

-AtS is a superior show to BtVS
When I first joined I'd think these to be unpopular but it turns out many people agree on this. Perhaps the overall world doesn't, but BB does.
 
Unpopular opinions, okay... I wanted more Sane!Connor in Season 5. He was never going to have a normal life, anyway, so why not have him break out of his faux normality sooner. Have him discovering his powers sooner, and have him go all Peter Parker, or Connor Kent. I wanted him to be more involved with Angel and the Fang Gang, so I could see how his relationships with them differed from his pre-adjusted self. I wanted Spike and Connor to tease Angel together for at least one scene. I would have loved to see Connor's reaction to Puppet!Angel.

I have never understood Doyle's character. Harriet practically describes him as a saint before he got his visions, and her description of him doesn't make sense with his timeline. The events on his timeline made no sense. How long of a timespan did he have between marrying Harry, having the visions, breaking up with Harry, his first experience with the Scrouge, and joining Angel. Isn't there some kind of licensure for teaching? How could getting visions of people in trouble turn a stand-up guy to a lazy jerk? How about his description of his life in Rm w/ a Vu? Where does that fit in? Why does he kiss Cordy with his human face? Wouldn't it be more symbolically relevant, if it was his demon face instead?

With what little I've seen of Angel seasons 2-4, I interpreted Fred as a "stereotype foil" to Lindsey. They are both from Texas, but they have opposite personalities, opposite perspectives on Angel, and from what I understand, opposite character arcs and deaths. It might be because the American stereotypes I am familiar with are quite extreme [America is only New York, Texas, and California; All American women are voluptuous, bronzed, and tall, walking around in a Star-spangled bikini top and jean short shorts with a cowboy hat; All American men look like Elvis or are blonde with a widow's peak and a rather large nose; Americans threaten to sue each other at every opportunity, etc.], but I thought both of these characters together showed a more rounded view of Texan Americans, like how Buffy and Cordelia represent a more well-round view of Californian women.
 
Why does he kiss Cordy with his human face? Wouldn't it be more symbolically relevant, if it was his demon face instead?
Because his demon face has spikes!! He would have turned her face into a sieve!
 
I have never understood Doyle's character. Harriet practically describes him as a saint before he got his visions, and her description of him doesn't make sense with his timeline. The events on his timeline made no sense. How long of a timespan did he have between marrying Harry, having the visions, breaking up with Harry, his first experience with the Scrouge, and joining Angel. Isn't there some kind of licensure for teaching? How could getting visions of people in trouble turn a stand-up guy to a lazy jerk? How about his description of his life in Rm w/ a Vu? Where does that fit in?
What don't you understand about his timeline? They don't give us dates or ages so we can't be sure in terms of years, but the chronology of events seems adequately explained. Harry doesn't describe him as a saint. She just says he was sweet, volunteered at soup kitchens and was a school teacher - they met they were 19 (dunno if a 19 year old can actually get teaching credentials in the US at that age though). She indicates after a while he got a little overprotective and she felt like she was one of his pupils. His demon side presented itself when he was 21. He couldn't come to terms with it so their marriage disintegrated. He seems to have started drinking while they were still together and afterwards it looks like he did so more heavily. at some point later he finds out about the Scourge because a Brachen demon comes to him for help. He ignores him but then gets a vision from which he finds out it was true. At a later unspecified point he gets another vision which leads him to Angel.

Unpopular opinions, okay... I wanted more Sane!Connor in Season 5. He was never going to have a normal life, anyway, so why not have him break out of his faux normality sooner. Have him discovering his powers sooner, and have him go all Peter Parker, or Connor Kent. I wanted him to be more involved with Angel and the Fang Gang, so I could see how his relationships with them differed from his pre-adjusted self. I wanted Spike and Connor to tease Angel together for at least one scene. I would have loved to see Connor's reaction to Puppet!Angel.
Interesting. I never considered whether there should have been more Sane!Connor. Not sure if it would have been too much to fit into a season. Origin is near the end of season anyway so it would have been tough to do a full Connor/Fang Gang integration story while building up momentum towards the finale.
 
Grace
Grace
Ha! I had the exact same thought!
What don't you understand about his timeline? They don't give us dates or ages so we can't be sure in terms of years, but the chronology of events seems adequately explained. Harry doesn't describe him as a saint. She just says he was sweet, volunteered at soup kitchens and was a school teacher - they met they were 19 (dunno if a 19-year-old can actually get teaching credentials in the US at that age though). She indicates after a while he got a little overprotective and she felt like she was one of his pupils. His demon side presented itself when he was 21. He couldn't come to terms with it so their marriage disintegrated. He seems to have started drinking while they were still together and afterwards it looks like he did so more heavily. at some point later he finds out about the Scourge because a Brachen demon comes to him for help. He ignores him but then gets a vision from which he finds out it was true. At a later unspecified point, he gets another vision which leads him to Angel.

So, from 19 - 21, he had enough time to meet Harry, marry her, and get his teaching license, okay. At 21, he gained his demon side and began his downward spiral. Here's where I'm confused. When did the Scourage incident happen in relation to the disintegrating marriage? A few months? A few years? How soon after he gained his visions did he get assigned to Angel? Where were the Scourage between then and Hero? How old do you see Doyle as? I see him as pretty young, maybe 25 at the oldest. I still have trouble seeing how the Doyle that Harry describes becomes the Doyle that we see in the first episode. In Rm w/ a Vu and In the Dark, he seems to have extensive relationships with the demon community as well as extensive debts, and I just don't see a guy who is struggling with his demon heritage, interacting with the demon community. What do you think?

Because his demon face has spikes!! He would have turned her face into a sieve!
He doesn't have to shove his entire face onto her face to kiss her. I don't think there are any spikes on his lips. Besides, the way they shot his kiss with her showed enough space for the spikes IMO.
 
Unpopular AtS opinions I hold:

-I love Connor and will defend him until the day I die
-I prefer Fred/Gunn to Fred/Wes and find Wesley's feelings for Fred creepy, obsessive and Spike-esque
-I don't like Cordy/Angel as a romantic pairing
-I don't particularly like Lorn
-Season 4 isn't a bad as everyone makes it out to be, in fact, for me it only really derails once Jasmine is "born"
-AtS is a superior show to BtVS

I almost thought I'd written this. Then I remembered I do like Lorne, but otherwise, almost spot on with what I would say. 🙂
 
So, from 19 - 21, he had enough time to meet Harry, marry her, and get his teaching license, okay. At 21, he gained his demon side and began his downward spiral. Here's where I'm confused. When did the Scourage incident happen in relation to the disintegrating marriage? A few months? A few years? How soon after he gained his visions did he get assigned to Angel? Where were the Scourage between then and Hero? How old do you see Doyle as? I see him as pretty young, maybe 25 at the oldest. I still have trouble seeing how the Doyle that Harry describes becomes the Doyle that we see in the first episode. In Rm w/ a Vu and In the Dark, he seems to have extensive relationships with the demon community as well as extensive debts, and I just don't see a guy who is struggling with his demon heritage, interacting with the demon community. What do you think?
I think he had his teaching licence before he met her. The Scourge happened after he and Harry had separated, but he mentions having only just found out about his demon side so it depends on what you take 'only just' to mean. I'm guessing his marriage disintegrated in less than a year. No idea how long after that he encountered the fellow Brachen demon - we're not given dates - but they make it sound like he and Harry have been separated for a while, so I think a couple of years at least. If he's still struggling with his demon heritage, than from his psychological POV 'just' would make sense even when used years after the event. He seems to have got the Angel vision relatively soon after.

I think it's indicated somewhere that the 'streetwise slacker guy' is just a front he puts on - I'm guessing he started doing that when he was assigned to help Angel, since he'd have no reason to do it before then. It's a defence mechanism so he doesn't have to get too involved in things; he can just push Angel in the right direction and stand back and keep himself at a distance from the demon world he's still not too comfortable with. I can see him developing demon contacts despite this discomfort. With no job, no partner and a general lack of self-worth, he probably ends up turning to shady underground demons to borrow money. He doesn't have to be okay with or actively cultivate that interaction, he just uses it to get what he needs.

I'd say your age guess is about right, makes sense that he would be a similar age to Angel's physical one, although Glenn was in his 30s when he got the part on the show.

Sorry I can't give you more specifics, but the show doesn't provide them. Unless I've missed a few hints, in which case I might have to summon @NileQT87 to help! She's good at timelines. 🙂
 
Curious Pathos
Curious Pathos
Thanks, this really helps.
With what little I've seen of Angel seasons 2-4, I interpreted Fred as a "stereotype foil" to Lindsey. They are both from Texas, but they have opposite personalities, opposite perspectives on Angel, and from what I understand, opposite character arcs and deaths. It might be because the American stereotypes I am familiar with are quite extreme [America is only New York, Texas, and California; All American women are voluptuous, bronzed, and tall, walking around in a Star-spangled bikini top and jean short shorts with a cowboy hat; All American men look like Elvis or are blonde with a widow's peak and a rather large nose; Americans threaten to sue each other at every opportunity, etc.], but I thought both of these characters together showed a more rounded view of Texan Americans, like how Buffy and Cordelia represent a more well-round view of Californian women.

I never saw this but interesting notion. While I love Fred, as a Texan, I feel she was rather stereotypical Texan and so were here parents. I don’t talk like her and I’ve lived in Texas all my life.

Also I never got the impression Lindsay was from Texas but from the mid-west like Riley.

So have you gone back and watched AtS completely yet???
 
Also I never got the impression Lindsay was from Texas but from the mid-west like Riley.

In You’re Welcome, Angel says: “I mean, all I did was beat up a tiny Texan. It's not like I helped anyone.”
 
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