Buffy kicking a person out of their own home +

[thetopher]

I think you are thinking about him not being able to enter Kate's father's house when the vamps are getting ready to munch on him.

I don't believe so. I remember Angel was with Gunn and Gunn was searching the place because Angel couldn't enter. Then Angel was all casual/awkward about asking Gunn about getting payment from AI. Gunn said sure thing, the guy died off-screen and Angel fell on his face.
I think W&H were involved somehow. Urg, if I had time I'd look it up.

 

[Faded90]

Now I remember Spike's explanation...but since he didn't see what Buffy did he's almost certainly just guessing yet sounding very sure of himself. Which is Spike, to be fair.

But wild guess notwithstanding the guy's probably definitely dead, since I remember that in an episode of Angel a guy was on life support and Angel still couldn't enter his home...until the guy dies and Angel falls in on his face. S2 I think.
Basically the sanctuary against vampires thing is pretty strong.

So the guy died cold and alone, bereft of his favourite shotgun, knowing that some rando is raiding his fridge. lol

Angel being able to enter Kate’s apartment that time suggests that sometimes the barrier thing isn’t always black/white though

 

[thetopher]

@nightshade : Yes! That was the one. Thanks, it woulda nagged at me otherwise. 🙂

Angel being able to enter Kate’s apartment that time suggests that sometimes the barrier thing isn’t always black/white though

Hmn, I think Kate was dying/trying to die so I can see why it might not be as 'strong'. Plus he knew her well and they'd allied once or twice...meh.

I guess it depends if you think Angel desperate to save someone's life is the equivalent to Spike trying to peptalk Buffy out of her prideful snit.
Regardless, if she doesn't care if the world is going to end with everyone in it, still makes her kind of an awful person for the entire episode.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I guess it depends if you think Angel desperate to save someone's life is the equivalent to Spike trying to peptalk Buffy out of her prideful snit.

I never thought of that before; that the Powers that Be allowed Spike to give Buffy the pep talk just as they allowed Angel to enter the apt. That's s really interesting idea. Looking after both of the vampire champions equally.

 

[thrasherpix]

Being late in season 7 Buffy, I'm surprised the writers even remembered vampires needed invites.

 

[TheAnnoyingOne]

Now I remember Spike's explanation...but since he didn't see what Buffy did he's almost certainly just guessing yet sounding very sure of himself. Which is Spike, to be fair.

But wild guess notwithstanding the guy's probably definitely dead, since I remember that in an episode of Angel a guy was on life support and Angel still couldn't enter his home...until the guy dies and Angel falls in on his face. S2 I think.
Basically the sanctuary against vampires thing is pretty strong.

So the guy died cold and alone, bereft of his favourite shotgun, knowing that some rando is raiding his fridge. lol

I mean it's only your own assumption that something bad happened to him.

 

[Bop]

@Angel6 I can't say he didn't for certain but I can't remember Spike calling Dawn pet off the top of my head- I remember niblet and platelet being nicknames.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Is it hard to think of such bad script writing as when Angel went into Kate's place or when Spike walked into that man's house, with a ludicrously bad excuse. At least I hope it is hard .. .. ..

 

[TheAnnoyingOne]

@thetopher Of course what she did was wrong. I'm just saying there's no evidence that something bad happened to him.

 

[Tome]

I actually never even thought about the fact Spike got in without an invitation. I suppose the most likely reason is that the owner got killed.

Ah well, probably not the only innocent who died during that whole exodus from Sunnydale.

 

[thetopher]

Of course what she did was wrong. I'm just saying there's no evidence that something bad happened to him.

Of course there's evidence, its just not definitive. Spike being able to enter a home uninvited is indicative of the owner not being alive anymore. Ergo the owner that Buffy disarmed and kicked out mere hours ago is no longer alive for some reason.

Now, you can say 'oh, nah, its another reason' and that's cool, but its really just up to individual interpretation at this point

 

[TheAnnoyingOne]

Of course there's evidence, its just not definitive. Spike being able to enter a home uninvited is indicative of the owner not being alive anymore. Ergo the owner that Buffy disarmed and kicked out mere hours ago is no longer alive for some reason.

Now, you can say 'oh, nah, its another reason' and that's cool, but its really just up to individual interpretation at this point

I could have considered that an evidence if Spike hadn't more or less explained the reason himself. I think it has something to do with the influence of the First Evil and its power affecting barriers, that's what Spike seemed to imply.

 

[Faded90]

I could have considered that an evidence if Spike hadn't more or less explained the reason himself. I think it has something to do with the influence of the First Evil and its power affecting barriers, that's what Spike seemed to imply.

I’ve always took Spike’s line as almost exposition to the audience more than anything

 

[Fuffy]

20 years later and my mom is still pissed that the potentials dared to kick Buffy out of her own house.

Writers logic: " let's forget what happened in the previous episode".

 

[thetopher]

I could have considered that an evidence if Spike hadn't more or less explained the reason himself.

Except Spike didn't know what Buffy did to the owner and he's just guessing? There's nothing to say that he's right, especially since he doesn't have the context.

We, the audience, do. So we can decide whether Spike is right or that actually the guy is dead or, indeed, if some higher power (other than the writers) desperately wants Touched to happen so 'let' Spike inside.

 

[TheAnnoyingOne]

Except Spike didn't know what Buffy did to the owner and he's just guessing? There's nothing to say that he's right, especially since he doesn't have the context.

We, the audience, do. So we can decide whether Spike is right or that actually the guy is dead or, indeed, if some higher power (other than the writers) desperately wants Touched to happen so 'let' Spike inside.

Spike didn't know but I saw it as the writers using Spike to give the audience an explanation. I don't think they'd bother going with a false explanation as if Spike was a real person with independent thoughts. He said what the writers wanted him to say and I think he was informing us in that instance. The characters themselves aren't alive so I always try to think about what was the writers' thoughts and the reason behind each decision they made. Here I can't imagine them thinking "let's make him say something either false or uncertain so the audience won't know what the true reason is".

 

[Skanky Vamp]

There's nothing to say that he's right

But... But... when was Spike ever wrong?

Post automatically merged: Mar 7, 2023

I can't imagine them thinking "let's make him say something either false or uncertain so the audience won't know what the true reason is".

Sorta like they did at the end of season 6

 

[garfan]

Except they had no way of knowing what he was- clearly not human- or indeed how to even kill him. And they also lacked Spike, who had fought the guy previously and is theoretically useful, so maybe wait til he gets back to what? Mob Caleb all at once? What a great plan. sarc/




You're using knowledge that the character did not have at the time to say why it was stupid, whilst ignoring the fact that the group did have knowledge that would make Buffy's first, much stupider plan completely unnecessary.


Also, didn't Spike enter the dude's place following Buffy's smell? How could he enter if the guy was still alive?
So, canonically the dude was killed because Buffy needed a place to crash. Goddamn it.

Caleb was human though

so, you would assume the enemies that can't see and don't speak and follow the will of a bodyless being that doesn't even exist on this plane has a mind. I guess I watched to much Power Rangers with my little brother, cause those things scream Putty Patroller to me, and I'd assume mindless till I was proven wrong

the place was abandoned, he did not damn well die, which he would have when the town turned into a sinkhole maybe three days later

Post automatically merged: Mar 8, 2023

Being late in season 7 Buffy, I'm surprised the writers even remembered vampires needed invites.

they had shown there could be exceptions. Ubervamps didn't for one

Post automatically merged: Mar 8, 2023

Of course there's evidence, its just not definitive. Spike being able to enter a home uninvited is indicative of the owner not being alive anymore. Ergo the owner that Buffy disarmed and kicked out mere hours ago is no longer alive for some reason.

Now, you can say 'oh, nah, its another reason' and that's cool, but its really just up to individual interpretation at this point

considering they set up the entire thing to build Buffy back up, I'd say no it isn't

Post automatically merged: Mar 8, 2023

I’ve always took Spike’s line as almost exposition to the audience more than anything

considering we've seen ownerless propertty entered by vamps and being abandoned by someone makes it ownerless, it was barely necessary

 

[thetopher]

Spike didn't know but I saw it as the writers using Spike to give the audience an explanation. I don't think they'd bother going with a false explanation as if Spike was a real person with independent thoughts. He said what the writers wanted him to say and I think he was informing us in that instance.

That's certainly a valid interpretation, and in a season that was better written I would give the writers more leeway, but the whole episode is a weak mess of contrive and character motivation. So I'm gonna explore all possiblities and see if the writing accounts for it. Spike's explanation seems weak because he's clearly just guessing, without knowing the context of the house being recently occupied. And he's referencing a phenomenon that we haven't witnessed before.

It's a throwaway line there to answer a question to viewer might have, but is it a good enough answer?
If Giles had said it I might've been a bit more charitable.

Caleb was human though

lol From what the characters experienced, clearly he wasn't; he one-punched Buffy out cold and easily beat Spike and Faith into unconsciousness.

There is no reasonable conclusion that the characters could think 'oh, he's just a human somehow empowered by the First'. The natural conclusion is he is more than human, a human looking demon or some new and terrifying being.
Maybe a God like Glory? (y'know, human-looking Glory who was terrifyingly strong and unkillable?) Or maybe an avatar of evil? A primordial priest of The First from the dawn of time.

I would not assume; rando misogynist serial killer who can be 'empowered by the First' because why would I? Not a natural conclusion.

The characters did not see what we saw.

so, you would assume the enemies that can't see and don't speak and follow the will of a bodyless being that doesn't even exist on this plane has a mind.

Blind assassin from Blind Date was human with her own personality so I wouldn't naturally assume 'mindless' regarding anything where magic, second-sight, psychic powers, robots and the like exist, I would maybe assume 'magical cultists with some kind of radar sense'

Moreover, if you would someone with their tongue cut out- like a Bringer, for example- wouldn't that indicate that their Master was maybe worried that they could be used as a source of intel and didn't want them giving anything up?

All I can think of is Glory's mass of interchangeable minions, who would happily blab inter if interrogated.

the place was abandoned, he did not damn well die

Your opinion that, after a matter of hours, a house becomes abandoned.
But that's actually not how 'vampires entering your home' works. If the owner is alive, the vampire cannot enter. If the owner is dead then no problem. That is lore regarding vampires that we've been shown on both shows.

Simplest explanation 'guy's dead'.

I will, charitably, give you another explanation that you can cling to:
That guy? Yeah, wasn't the real home-owner. He was simply another terrified squatter who just picked the same house as Buffy. So when Buffy came along he scurried away and lived a long and healthy life. The true owner was already dead or had abandoned it weeks if not months ago.

Not that it matters; Buffy did what she did which, in my opinion, is kinda borderline villainous. Telling a guy to get out of town? Fine, but leave him something to defend himself with before kicking him out. Or maybe just find some place else to crash....

 

[Ethan Reigns]

The vampires who sucked on Riley were in a building that was abandoned - there was no sign of a dead owner since the building would have been sold for back taxes or willed to an heir otherwise. Once the house was abandoned, it was open for occupancy by vampires. If you have ever been in a mass evacuation, people come around and tell you to get out (or if you are out, you can't come back) and this is beneficial to you. There was an exodus of people and demons alike from Sunnydale (see my avatar) but not everyone left willingly. Buffy did him a favour, even if it doesn't look like it. As for the idea that he had nothing to defend himself with, that was the same as everyone else who was leaving. What could she give him? A bottle of holy water? A stake? A sword for decapitation? A flamethrower? The sun?