Episode Discussion Buffy, Spike, Seeing Red and The Me Too Movement

[DeadlyDuo]

Also, calling Faith 'Buffy's rapist' is quite extreme, there is no real world equivalent of body swapping, therefore it's not really fair to say that Faith raped Buffy, especially considering Buffy was not in her body at the time of the alleged rape, which means she suffered no trauma as a result. Was it a violation of Buffy's body? Yes. But I don't think it's cut-and-dry rape.

Faith raped Riley by deception. The closest real world equivalent to this would be if Buffy and Faith were identical twins and Riley thought he was sleeping with Buffy but it was Faith instead and she let him think it was Buffy.

In regards to Buffy, it's still rape. Faith used Buffy's body and did things with it that Buffy couldn't consent to such as having sex with Riley. There's also the fact that Faith isn't one for celibacy, post-Riley she would've slept with someone else, again Buffy's body would be having sex that Buffy didn't consent to.

Ironically, this whole debate over whether Faith raped Buffy could've been avoided if, instead of swapping bodies, the gadget the mayor gave Faith only swapped the girls' appearances Both slayers would keep their own bodies but they would just look like the other, therefore when Faith slept with Riley, it was her own body she was using, not Buffy's but she just so happened to look like Buffy. The episode would still stay exactly the same.

 

[crazysoulless]

So, is your issue with the fact that Faith got redemption or that Angel was the one who "sponsored" her?

Also, calling Faith 'Buffy's rapist' is quite extreme, there is no real world equivalent of body swapping, therefore it's not really fair to say that Faith raped Buffy, especially considering Buffy was not in her body at the time of the alleged rape, which means she suffered no trauma as a result. Was it a violation of Buffy's body? Yes. But I don't think it's cut-and-dry rape.

See, this is why I used the language that I did earlier in the thread. Describing in detail what Faith did to Buffy & Riley is considered too sexually graphic to post in writing on the board and yet 90% of the fandom don't acknowledge what Faith did to Buffy & Riley as rape and calling Faith a rapist is seen as "extreme."

How is the language vulgar and triggering but the act itself is seen as just a mistake, violation of some sort, or just a metaphor? Why isn't what Faith did the vulgar thing?

People had a bigger reaction to Spike stealing Buffy's panties and imagining he's having sex with Buffy, which she never found out about, than they do to Faith actually removing Buffy's panties from Buffy's body and engaging in sex with Buffy's body, which she was hurt and angry about when she found out, going so far as to say what Faith did to her made her feel like a victim.

I don't agree that there wouldn't be any trauma finding out people had sex with your body without your consent so long as you didn't have to experience it while it was happening. It wouldn't change the fact that it did happen. Is it one of those "if a tree falls in the forest" situations?

Either way, Buffy's spirit wasn't in her body because Faith forced her out of it. You can't force someone out of their home and then say what you do in their home doesn't count because they weren't there to experience you doing it.

A violation could describe anything from Professor Walsh watching Riley & Buffy having sex via serveliance cameras to that trucker slapping Buffy's butt while she was waiting tables. Faith got under Buffy's bra and underwear and had body parts inserted into Buffy. It's not like all Faith did in Buffy's body was snuggle.

If Warren had bodyswapped Buffy and then immediately stripped naked to "take a bath" or if he had bodyswapped Willow and had sex with Tara, I doubt fandom would downplay it or try to think of all of the reasons it wasn't really rape.

I take issue with both the redemption and who sponsored her.

 

[NikonTheVampire]

Thank you guys for replying to this posts. All your opinions are welcome and appreciated. Special thanks to @thetopher @Ethan Reigns @WillowFromBuffy @RomanticSoul @debbicles and @thrasherpix

I have been gone from this thread for six months and you guys have just knocked it out the park with your insight and opinion. Thank you for sharing your ideas. Because of you, I have more ideas and I can polish mine for a more balanced view of the situation. The difference between art an reality. Victimhood and bravery. All those elements have been amazing to read and I am sure anyone with a critical mind would read your posts and get something positive about them.

I want to thank separately @DeepBlueJoy. You are an amazing person with a beautiful heart and bravery beyond compare. You are an example to others in a way you can't possibly fathom. Thank you. Thank you for your posts and your insight. Your testimony and your ideas bring light to a subject matter that relishes being in darkness. Thank you

I want to thank all the other members who have respected and embraced @DeepBlueJoy.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

Thank you guys for replying to this posts. All your opinions are welcome and appreciated. Special thanks to @thetopher @Ethan Reigns @WillowFromBuffy @RomanticSoul @debbicles and @thrasherpix

I have been gone from this thread for six months and you guys have just knocked it out the park with your insight and opinion. Thank you for sharing your ideas. Because of you, I have more ideas and I can polish mine for a more balanced view of the situation. The difference between art an reality. Victimhood and bravery. All those elements have been amazing to read and I am sure anyone with a critical mind would read your posts and get something positive about them.

I want to thank separately @DeepBlueJoy. You are an amazing person with a beautiful heart and bravery beyond compare. You are an example to others in a way you can't possibly fathom. Thank you. Thank you for your posts and your insight. Your testimony and your ideas bring light to a subject matter that relishes being in darkness. Thank you

I want to thank all the other members who have respected and embraced @DeepBlueJoy.

Thank you. I read this and now I am in tears. So deeply appreciate this.

Thank you,

Blue