Buffy VS Faith - Who was the better slayer?

Who is the best slayer?

  • Buffy

    Votes: 48 81.4%
  • Faith

    Votes: 7 11.9%
  • Kendra Young

    Votes: 4 6.8%

  • Total voters
    59
Faith is damaged since she was very young. The fact that she didn't even have a single parental figure to guide her causes her to be the way she is.

Buffy had her mom. Hence the pain in the Body. One can never underestimate the power of the parental units.
 
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If the show was not called Buffy the Vampire Slayer
If Faith was not a recurring slayer but a main slayer like Buffy
If we did not have good slayer vs bad slayer

Then I would say Faith, but, were not in that fantasy land. The series and the writing required that Buffy was better than Faith. Kendra was the equal to Buffy in fighting, and smarter but they figured the backlash and had to kill her off as fast as they could. So the writing required good vs evil and we came up with Faith.
 
Both of them have their strengths and weaknesses. I like them both equally, even though I feel more bad for Faith and her messed up psyche than Buffy.
 
Buffy.

I adore Faith but I'm also not remotely confident that had Faith not gone to prison and had continued her nightly duties as a Slayer for as long as Buffy had, that she'd still be alive today. I think in many ways that her journey in Season 3/4 (the accidental slaying of Finch - working for The Mayor - fallen into a coma via Buffy - fleeing to LA - turning herself into prison) prolonged her life for a greater period of time than she'd likely would've survived had she stayed on the same reckless path she was on up until "Bad Girls." In Season 3 she exhibited some real signs of recklessness that I think would've been her undoing in the end. For example, in "Bad Girls" I think she acted too hastily in the cemetery and Buffy had to save her from death by sword. Later in the episode she completely rejects Buffy's warning to "stop and think" and jumps down into the sewers whilst completely outnumbered. I think she'd have done that regardless of whether Buffy was with her or not. Had Faith continued acting this way I think she'd eventually had put herself into a situation she was unable to fight her way out of. Going to prison was a blessing IMO.

Faith grows a lot as a person and I don't believe she displays the same level of recklessness she once did (although she does flippantly say in "Dirty Girls" - "Hey I'm with you. Drop me in the hornet's nest, what the hell!" - which suggests that she hasn't entirely grown out of that mindset) but she's also missed years of training and experience out on the field. A lot of a Slayer's power comes naturally to them with age, as does their fighting abilities, but Buffy undoubtedly would be the superior fighter due to her experience of nightly battles and the dedication she gave to her training (as opposed to Faith who didn't take training seriously as established in "Helpless").

None of this is a dig at Faith but if I'm being asked who is the better Slayer then logically it just must be Buffy. She's been the Slayer longer and is thus more powerful, she's spent years training, she has much more experience out on the field and against an assortment of foes, and I think she has a better temperament overall. I'd be happy with either girl in my corner but as much as I cherish Faith's character, she's just never inspired the same kind of confidence in me that Buffy would if she was by my side in battle.
 
I've said it before and I'll make the point again; everyone knows that Buffy is awesome and the best slayer. It's her show and she- rightly- gets attention and praise for the good things she does.
Faith does not. When she is on the side of good for the first half of S3 she is mostly ignored or taken for granted.
For her perspective a large part of the appeal in her relationship with the Mayor is that he lavishes praise and gifts upon her but also values her like nobody else has.

And whilst nobody should congratulate her for doing evil stuff, its apparent that even when she's reformed Faith doesn't really get any level of recognition, except perhaps from Angel.
Hell, maybe she shouldn't? She had a sacred duty and made a lot of bad choices. Certainly she doesn't seem to demand or require credit or thanks.
She accepts that others can and do have a problem with her mere presence/past actions (Cordelia, Wesley, Buffy) but tries hard to concentrate on doing what she can anyway. And she never makes excuses.
After her prison stint she is motivated by a need to atone and make up for her mistakes. She doesn't allow herself any shortcuts.

That's why this is even a comparison for some people; they just want to give scrappy underdog Faith some of the recognition that was denied to her on BtVS.
 
When Kendra was around, there first time meeting with each other they were fighting each other and it ended up as a draw. Buffy was pushing her buttons and was bring up fighting each other again. Even saying she was the stronger slayer. Then she was killed off.

When Faith came around, Faith tried over and over again to work with Buffy. It was Buffy that was pushing a fellow slayer away. Yes, they did work together and worked as a team but Buffy really did not want to be equals. Then, they decided that Faith had to kill a human being. Buffy did not accept the answer from Faith to move on and let it go. Buffy kept pushing that Faith was a killer, not by accident but by choice. Buffy was pushing Faith to become the outcast.

It was interesting watching two strong females ending up fighting each other. But, I feel it was the fans and the way the story was going to force the two to end up fighing each other in a way different then the other fights were nobody was getting the better of the two and Faith runs away and Buffy stands around doing nothing.

The ending were Buffy stabs Faith with a knife and she falls on the truck was a clear victory. The time they trade bodies and Faith was in Buffy body and she punch her body with the mind of Buffy in her body leading to her being defeated onto the ground was interesting. Still, it was Faith mind in the body of Buffy that defeated the body of Faith with Buffy in her body.

Since it was Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I cannot see Buffy being really defeated by Faith. If the fight was not going to end in a draw, Buffy had to win the fight.
 
I would argue that Buffy is a lot like Goku, that simply knowing her makes you a better person and a better warrior, as far as Willow, Xander, Spike and Angel go and that goes for Faith as well. But, Buffy killed Lothos and could have defeated Spike. Both of those vampires killed multiple Slayers, therefore, Buffy may be the greatest of the line.
 
I would argue that Buffy is a lot like Goku, that simply knowing her makes you a better person and a better warrior, as far as Willow, Xander, Spike and Angel go and that goes for Faith as well. But, Buffy killed Lothos and could have defeated Spike. Both of those vampires killed multiple Slayers, therefore, Buffy may be the greatest of the line.

You might be on to something there. My strange feeling, Buffy was fighting to many of her friends. She fights Spike, Angel, Kendra, Faith and Willow. The only woman she really never had a fight with was Dawn. True, Buffy Summers vs Dawn Summers would have been interesting. Still, fighting your friends only makes you weaker in the end.
 
Hey, I just got to wondering...how similar is Buffy to Batman in how she seems to end up fighting her allies as much as her enemies? At least in terms of personal dynamics?

I don't know much about DC, but it seems Batman is perpetually suspicious that grates on the nerves of other DC heroes, and know that Batman vs Superman is a battle that keeps happening again and again because, I presume, fans love it so much.
 
Hey, I just got to wondering...how similar is Buffy to Batman in how she seems to end up fighting her allies as much as her enemies? At least in terms of personal dynamics?

I don't know much about DC, but it seems Batman is perpetually suspicious that grates on the nerves of other DC heroes, and know that Batman vs Superman is a battle that keeps happening again and again because, I presume, fans love it so much.

I do not read comics and never did as a child. Still, with so many superhero movies -- they are really forced to fight each other over and over again. It feels normal when men fight each other for some strange reason. It just feels strange when two strong women are forced to fight each other. There is no real story dealing with female vs female violence. It comes off as a after thought. Its like, hey look, females are fighting each other.

True, with Buffy vs Faith there was a story why the women decided to fight each other. But with movies, it just comes off as being silly. My feeling, when you have a movies with a strong female fighter -- you really can only have one. You are never going to have say Wounder Woman and Bat Girl working as a team in a movie as equals, then in the second move force them to fight each other. My feeling, strong women cannot be equal to each other
 
Buffy has a very strong personal conviction and her motivations are usually selfless. She has many desirable traits that would need for a strong warrior and team player.
Faith on the other hand, is more selfish and I don't dislike her for it because it is human and a lot of people would be the same. She does have a lot of redeeming traits but not ones that would make her the best slayer.
 
Buffy has a very strong personal conviction and her motivations are usually selfless. She has many desirable traits that would need for a strong warrior and team player.
Faith on the other hand, is more selfish and I don't dislike her for it because it is human and a lot of people would be the same. She does have a lot of redeeming traits but not ones that would make her the best slayer.
Since a life of a slayer is a short life, because they are always engaged in fight that can end in their life -- is not being selfish a positive. If I was a teenager again, and I understood my life is going to be short, would I not become selfish during my lifetime.
 
Since a life of a slayer is a short life, because they are always engaged in fight that can end in their life -- is not being selfish a positive. If I was a teenager again, and I understood my life is going to be short, would I not become selfish during my lifetime.
Not as a slayer, selflessness is necessary as it keeps the focus on the mission not on personal pleasures which Faith did (before realising her mistakes). And I literally said that a lot of people would be selfish and I'm not blaming her for that, it's just not a particularly helpful attribute for a slayer.
 
Not as a slayer, selflessness is necessary as it keeps the focus on the mission not on personal pleasures which Faith did (before realising her mistakes). And I literally said that a lot of people would be selfish and I'm not blaming her for that, it's just not a particularly helpful attribute for a slayer.

If I was a teenager again, and I was a slayer -- I would be more like Faith. True, Buffy as a strong slayer and she was in a great conflict with herself. She was fighting everyone, and she was in one way or another fighting her friends. She was even fighting her sister. Faith was selfish, but she really did not fight other women other than with Buffy. I rather support a selfish slayer then a insecure slayer turning on her friends to prove she is stronger then they are.
 
If I was a teenager again, and I was a slayer -- I would be more like Faith. True, Buffy as a strong slayer and she was in a great conflict with herself. She was fighting everyone, and she was in one way or another fighting her friends. She was even fighting her sister. Faith was selfish, but she really did not fight other women other than with Buffy. I rather support a selfish slayer then a insecure slayer turning on her friends to prove she is stronger then they are.
I'm sorry but I feel like I'm just repeating myself, I have said twice that most people would be selfish in a slayers position. And Faith betrayed the scoobies, raped Riley, tried to corrupt Buffy, torture Welsey and killed someone so lets not pretend that Faith not fighting other women makes her good. Buffy has done wrong, definitely, but she is always on the side of good and always prevails, she falls out with her friends like most people but they are, in the end dependent on each other and are the reason why each other are alive. Faith also betrayed her only friend at the time, Buffy. I also don't understand why fighting other women is an issue.
 
I'm sorry but I feel like I'm just repeating myself, I have said twice that most people would be selfish in a slayers position. And Faith betrayed the scoobies, raped Riley, tried to corrupt Buffy, torture Welsey and killed someone so lets not pretend that Faith not fighting other women makes her good. Buffy has done wrong, definitely, but she is always on the side of good and always prevails, she falls out with her friends like most people but they are, in the end dependent on each other and are the reason why each other are alive. Faith also betrayed her only friend at the time, Buffy. I also don't understand why fighting other women is an issue.

You also forgot that Faith shot Angle with a poison arrow that needed the blood of a slayer to cure. That was the reason why Buffy confronted Faith so she can drag her to Angle so he can bite and drain her blood until she was dead. True, Faith was not that good to the males of the series. True, the relationship between Buffy and Faith got more toxic as both women were not willing to be equal to each other. Yes, she killed a white male she thought was not a human. It was a very lame killing. Faith accepted it as a accident as a part of the way she deals with vamps and demons. Buffy on the other hand, wanted a good long girls only heart to heart talk about the death. When Faith rejected that social bonding, their friendship became worse.

If I was a slayer, and by accident I killed a real man -- I would have done the same as Faith. There is always civilians killed in conflicts with two parties in a conflict. How she dealt with the death was in my judgment the only best result. True, she could have called the police and confessed the the death. Got arrested, pleaded guilty and gone to a woman's prison. But, since she is a slayer, a vamp or a demon could have killed countless humans during her decades in prison. Only after her death, would another slayer would have called to confront and kill vamps and demons. Or, dealing with her guilt, she could have asked Buffy to kill her so another slayer could be called. So, there was suicide to take care of her guilt -- something that is irrational and would not have been accepted with the fans. She could have gone to prison for decades, and left Buffy alone to kill vamps and demons alone. And if Buffy was killed, there would not have been a active slayer to kill vamps and demons. So, there was only one rational answer to the crime -- cover up the crime and move on. Something that Buffy and the scoobies were willing to accept. Faith accepting the death was not a ideal but it was rational. I am not a idealist, but I am a rationalist. And time and time again, idealism classes with rationalism.
 
The issue wasn't so much that Faith accidentally killed a man, it was that she DIDN'T CARE. That's where the relationship fell apart between the two slayers.

One death is a tragedy and a million is a statistic -- Stalin

My grandfather was in World War II as a American serving in the Pacific Theater. He did see combat in the Philippines, when it was still a American territory since the Spanish American war and gained independence right after World War II. True, if you are born within the United States, you are a American citizen. But, even that the Philippines was American territory making it within the United States -- being born there you were not declared a American citizen because it was always believed that the Philippines would become a independent country. Second, Americans do not leave the United States and declare themselves independent. During the occupation of the Philippines by Japan, the death toll was 1.1 million people. When you read about America during World War II, you are told about how many Americans were killed during the war, and that number us under 500,000. The better question to ask, how many people were killed within the United States during World War II, and that number would be over 1.5 million people. With just this one factor, and with others -- North Vietnam understood that the Americans could not win the Vietnam war because the Americans care more about Americans with American citizenship then Asians born within a American territory without citizenship as a American.

Now, more Americans care more about Ann Frank being a young teenage girl locked in a attic with her family and other people then the 1.1 million people killed in the Philippines. They care more about Ann Frank having curiosity about her body changing when she asked her older sister if it was fine to compare their breasts. That is more interesting to debate within the American intelligencia then the vast amount of people that was born under the American flag as a Asian without citizenship who during the war fought and died to defend the United States.

You say, how does this lead up to Faith not caring about killing a man. As a American, I live in a country that does not care about Asians who grew up under the American flag, given a education to be like Americans, was given a education to read and speak English then Spanish. Then, they had to deal with Japan, and was being killed by them and had to defend themselves. My personal education has been to be rational. If I can be rational about the treatment of the Philippines during World War II, then I can support the feelings of Faith killing a man. Faith is a fictional character that killed a fictional character and was acting out as being rational. Yes, she did not care about killing him. But, it was cold and heartless, but it was a rational outcome. Just like my fellow Americans that look at the 1.1 million people that was killed in the Philippines during World War II. Yes it is cold and heartless too, but, even that they were born within the United States -- they were not American citizens.
 
T
thrasherpix
Not caring about how many people died in a war from long before you were born (and probably only barely aware of) is very different from not caring about someone you personally killed.
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