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Comics...canon?!

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
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Age
38
Hi

I know the comics are meant to be canon but I also read that Joss made a comment did he would have no problem ignoring them if he were to revive or return to the televised series. I have to say I have only glanced at a couple of issues online and in some respects I found it really departed from the spirit of the tv show and characters and some of the plot points seem really fantastical and far fetched. Buffy’s fling with Satsu, Giles becoming a teenager again?!! How do ppl generally feel?
Personally no.
I think the stories are terrible such as space sex with a man who murdered her Slayers. Buffy then proceeds to abandon them because Joss is bored with them. Plus the resolution to the whole Abortion storyline. Its not Buffy just a robot because Andrew roofied her rendering the whole plot moot WTF what a cop out !
You've also got some truly awful Artwork by Jeneatty. Who Joss brought back for the final season by the way. So he obviously loves it but I think it looks terrible.
Finally they basically just end the characters back in the same position to how the show ended in Chosen and Not Fade Away. Despite all the crazy things going on there's no real development

That’s a problem many supernatural shows have. Death has no meaning. If characters come back to life often times, then as a viewer we stop Having fears for them because we know deaths won’t last. It actually impact the investment in the story. Though Buffy is a show that doesn’t suffer too much of this Problem ( Angel and Buffy are the two people who were ressurected.. two overs 7 years that’s acceptable I think ).
It's the same way for the Buffy verse too argubly worse because fans make excuses for the BtVS verse.
Characters would be kept around either A because the fans liked them or the B The writers liked them. The writers wouldn't even pretend to craft a decent reason why.
Spike in Out of My Mind is a Prime example. Not just Buffy but both Riley and the Government should've been after him for this. But they don't because well reasons.... Now I love Spike but to not even bother an excuse why is dumb.
Another is Harmony which stretches from BtVS in Crush all the way to Ats in Not Fade Away. Hell in that it's even played for laughs with Angel giving her a reference.
While Dawn had no story purpose post S5 and was kept around cause they liked the actress. I'm guessing it's the same reason for Tom Lenk in Buffy S7 and even Angel S5.

As for resurrection of characters it happens all the time.
Buffy twice
Angel once
Darla once
Spike once Just to name 4
David Greenwalt also confirmed they wouldve brought Doyle back if Glen Quinn had gotten himself cleaned up
 

Athene

Scooby
Joined
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Sineya
And if Joss were to gather the cast together and release BtVS13 as a TV show following on from BtVS12 would you consider them canon? Genuine question. 😊
That would probably make the comics more legitimate to me but as it stands they're optional. I've enjoyed some of the comics in their own right but I'll never see it as a canon continuation of the tv show because it can't be the tv show so I think canon stopped after Chosen/Not Fade Away.
 
TriBel
TriBel
Thanks - I understand that. :))

nightshade

Your grandfather is a cat
Staff member
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
9,559
Location
England
Black Thorn
I view the comics in the same way as the Tales of the Slayer books, not canon, but easily could be.

However for me Not Fade Away was the end of the canon.
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
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Manchester
Btvs fan comics have been huge since Gwen Stacey's death in the 70's

I said "recently", which is relatively non-specific. I also said "art form", which isn't the same as "popular".

Btvs fan You don't need help how to read a comic.

The number of books that have emerged on Amazon recently with titles such as "The Visual Language of Comics: Introduction to the Structure" and "Cognition of Sequential Images or Narrative Structure in Comics: Making Sense of Fragments" kinda suggest you do. I think Eisner and McCloud were among the earliest proponents. See Wiki's page on Comic Studies for a brief elaboration. It's only (fairly) recently it's developed its own critical language, which (personally), I see as a good thing.

Whistler as a mysterious messenger of a higher power who kind of works like a post modern angel, great, wonderful. Whistler as a half demon half power who is working for Twilight, a sapient universe that's trying to cause the seventh big event of season eight, eh, not so much.
To be fair, if Whistler's post-modern then almost anything goes. I genuinely didn't have a problem with Twilight - I think it can be inferred from Angel's relationship with his father, which implies a particular relationship to history. I agree about S8 though - it gives the impression of being written under the influence of Class A drugs.
but the underlying premises in the stories reflect thoughts by the creators of the series on how the back story of the show works
Again, agree but I'm not sure I'd call it "back story". For me it's its ideological/philosophical underpinnings that have stayed remarkably consistent.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
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Age
38
Btvs fan comics have been huge since Gwen Stacey's death in the 70's

I said "recently", which is relatively non-specific. I also said "art form", which isn't the same as "popular".

Btvs fan You don't need help how to read a comic.

The number of books that have emerged on Amazon recently with titles such as "The Visual Language of Comics: Introduction to the Structure" and "Cognition of Sequential Images or Narrative Structure in Comics: Making Sense of Fragments" kinda suggest you do. I think Eisner and McCloud were among the earliest proponents. See Wiki's page on Comic Studies for a brief elaboration. It's only (fairly) recently it's developed its own critical language, which (personally), I see as a good thing.



To be fair, if Whistler's post-modern then almost anything goes. I genuinely didn't have a problem with Twilight - I think it can be inferred from Angel's relationship with his father, which implies a particular relationship to history. I agree about S8 though - it gives the impression of being written under the influence of Class A drugs.

Again, agree but I'm not sure I'd call it "back story". For me it's its ideological/philosophical underpinnings that have stayed remarkably consistent.
Seeing as you weren't specific maybe you could be in terms of Timeline your talking about ?
Also don't be ridiculous, Comics are a popular story art form that sells. They always have been. It was designed for people specifically young kids to read and buy. Not for avant-garde Art Collectors to virtue signal on there cleverness. It's why you will always get stories of characters like Batman and Spiderman because they are popular and sell.
Stan Lee made it plain when he said the trick is to make the story seem different so the audience buys it but not to make the story to different that it puts them off.
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
She was specifically talking about academia

famicommander

Townie
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Messages
92
Age
29
I consider these comics canon:
The Origin
Anything released as part of the "Seasons"
Post Not Fade Away IDW Angel (After the Fall through Yearbook, but not the earlier-released or historical setting stuff )
The High School Years
Spike: Asylum
Spike: Shadow Puppets
Spike: After the Fall
Spike: The Devil You Know
Spike: Into the Light
Illyria: Haunted
Spike (IDW)
Fray
Tales of the Slayers
Tales of the Vampires

They create some minor inconsistencies sometimes, but the shows themselves do that too. I don't like every single story arc or character but Joss himself has more or less endorsed all of this and that's good enough for me.

In particular I think the stuff written by Brian Lynch and the stuff by Christos Gage are some of the best stuff in any Buffy media.
 

VisionGirl

Newly Human
Joined
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5,169
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51
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Sineya
As for Whedon himself, yes he said that, but it was a long time ago. What he would do now and what he would consider now in regards to continuity to a television series or movie, is anyone’s guess. He is the creator and if he wants to consider something canon or disregard it as canon in relation to new material, well I suppose he has that right. But the fact is it exists. The canon is there.
 

CHK DeWilSon

A BAngel fan. Always.
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
136
Age
49
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London
I can admit to actually not having read any of them but given what they did in their season 8, I have no desire to read any of them.

So sure the comics CAN be viewed as cannon but because of Joss showing that he would disregard them in a heartbeat then I feel it's perfectly ok to just seen them an non cannon but also in some instances badly written fanfiction.

Now given the rumours I've read regarding some of the writers of the comics in their favouritism towards characters they love, well from what I know of the comics, they don't feel like there is a fair and balance storytelling with certain characters.

And I think it can be easier to enjoy the comics and look at them as definite cannon if your favourite character or characters have been written in a more positive and fairer way.

So yes for me, the view that I have of Angel being character assassinated with the ridiculous Twilight story means that I see them as pure rubbish and even though the comics with Angel and Faith sound better (and am thankful they just let Angel and Faith stay as close friends), by that point I couldn't care less about the comics.

Still I guess if you enjoy the direction that they go in then you can be happy and satisfied they exist.
 
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