Comics...canon?!

spikenbuffy said:
Illyria pretended to be Fred & The First took the appearance of Warren because he died from Willow's dark magic. Both were dead, it's not the same. Illyria & The First just took their appearances , that's all.

Both were meant to stay dead before Whedon change the story & lie about it. Fred's soul was destroyed in ATS S5. It was tragic, moving & great as a story. And it was good like that. I don't like when characters get brought back to life after that it was clear that they won't come back.

I also LOVED that Willow flayed Warren 😀 in S6.
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I dislike the fact that they brought people who either should have stayed dead or people who like Fred soul was destroyed .
And Joss had said he was thinking of bringing back Tara at the end of the series but couldn't yet didn't bring her back in the comics .
 
I loved the comics, but I agree bringing back people from the dead meant there was absolutely no jeopardy at all which removed much of the excitement of the comics as no one was at any real risk. They did leave Cordy, Tara and Wesley for dead, but I wish they'd also left Giles and didn't bring him back.
 
Priceless said:
I loved the comics, but I agree bringing back people from the dead meant there was absolutely no jeopardy at all which removed much of the excitement of the comics as no one was at any real risk. They did leave Cordy, Tara and Wesley for dead, but I wish they'd also left Giles and didn't bring him back.
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Tbh that was a problem on the show too not just the comics.
 
Btvs fan said:
Tbh that was a problem on the show too not just the comics.
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I don't think it was the same. I was happy to see Buffy come back from the dead. I didn't want the show to end with just another dead slayer, that to me would have been a waste of five seasons (plus season 6 & 7 are my favourites). I'm glad Joyce and Tara were left in peace. I didn't care about Jesse, so he was no loss to me. I was glad Angel returned so we could see him on his own show, and of course I was happy to see Spike again. None of those returns felt unearned to me, and they all added so much to the verse I'm glad they happened.

In the comics the only return that really paid off, I think, was Giles. But not because I wanted to see Giles again, but because of the journey Angel and Faith took in Season 9 to get him back. Wonderful comic season and I'm glad we got it. Pity Giles returned as a child.
 
Angel6
Angel6
Yeah that Angel and Faith Season 9 was the only one of the dark horse I quite enjoyed. Art still sucks though!
I really enjoy the comics, although I'm not completely up to date. Do they hit the same way as the tv series? Not quite. Season 8 for sure had the feel of look at all the crazy things we can do without a CGI budget. And sometimes the tone feels wrong but other times the tone feels perfect. I think for me canon or not I just hold them separately in my mind, I can't help it. If the comics are the only continuation of story we get then okay, I'll take it. But if Joss was to say forget the comics we're going a new direction, I'd jump on board with that too.
 
I think of the comics as being soft canon to the shows' hard canon. A bit like Pottermore - yeah, sure JKR is inventing that stuff and says it's real but ... it's not in the books so it doesn't really count. And if she decided to write another Harry book or a marauder era book, or even a founders book - she isn't going to cross reference every inane titbit she posted onto Pottermore to make sure nothing in the new hard canon contradicts the old soft canon and that would be no big deal. Tey'd just quietly change the soft canon. But if something she wrote in her new hard canon book contradicted something from the original series ... I mean my head might explode, or I'd have to find a way to headcanon it and make it fit. The films aren't actually canon because they're only 'based' on the book and 'cursed child ' ... well, the less said the better but the fact that it wasn't written by the actual creator and is written for another medium is enough for me to disregard completely.

I feel the same way about the comics - I know Joss wrote some of them, but certainly not all of them and wasn't even involved in plenty of them. They're a completely different medium, they would be disregarded in a moment if it became convenient to do so and they apparently already directly contradict hard canon (how can somebody forget Warren is dead?) so that much cannot be canon of any variety. The only reason I consider them soft canon and not out and out published fan fiction (like those Buffy books that were written back at the time - I read one called Monster Island about Doyle's dad being a member of The Scourge. It's a properly published book but CLEARLY not canon) is because Joss has said they're canon but ... Joss forgot Warren was dead. I'm not accepting his word as a literal truth, if his grasp on the show is getting that shaky - but I'll accept it as a half baked one.

I don't read the comics, though - I'm not a comic book fan in general so the change of medium was deeply unappealing to me, and then absolutely nothing I've ever heard of them makes me want to find out more. I'm not sure I've ever heard of a Buffyverse comic book story line where my immediate reaction wasn't 'well that sounds stupid.' Had the contents of the comics been the show - I wouldn't be posting on these boards 20 years later.
 
Myheadsgonenumb said:
I think of the comics as being soft canon to the shows' hard canon. A bit like Pottermore - yeah, sure JKR is inventing that stuff and says it's real but ... it's not in the books so it doesn't really count. And if she decided to write another Harry book or a marauder era book, or even a founders book - she isn't going to cross reference every inane titbit she posted onto Pottermore to make sure nothing in the new hard canon contradicts the old soft canon and that would be no big deal. Tey'd just quietly change the soft canon. But if something she wrote in her new hard canon book contradicted something from the original series ... I mean my head might explode, or I'd have to find a way to headcanon it and make it fit. The films aren't actually canon because they're only 'based' on the book and 'cursed child ' ... well, the less said the better but the fact that it wasn't written by the actual creator and is written for another medium is enough for me to disregard completely.

I feel the same way about the comics - I know Joss wrote some of them, but certainly not all of them and wasn't even involved in plenty of them. They're a completely different medium, they would be disregarded in a moment if it became convenient to do so and they apparently already directly contradict hard canon (how can somebody forget Warren is dead?) so that much cannot be canon of any variety. The only reason I consider them soft canon and not out and out published fan fiction (like those Buffy books that were written back at the time - I read one called Monster Island about Doyle's dad being a member of The Scourge. It's a properly published book but CLEARLY not canon) is because Joss has said they're canon but ... Joss forgot Warren was dead. I'm not accepting his word as a literal truth, if his grasp on the show is getting that shaky - but I'll accept it as a half baked one.

I don't read the comics, though - I'm not a comic book fan in general so the change of medium was deeply unappealing to me, and then absolutely nothing I've ever heard of them makes me want to find out more. I'm not sure I've ever heard of a Buffyverse comic book story line where my immediate reaction wasn't 'well that sounds stupid.' Had the contents of the comics been the show - I wouldn't be posting on these boards 20 years later.
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Joss was involved in S8 and S9 including the Space sex and TGIQ recon and the abortion storyline and how it ended. Both he and the other Comic writers/producers confirmed that was all Joss.
He also had a hand in Billy the Vampire Slayer but Espenson wrote it. So tbh some of the better stories were without Joss.
The success of Fray had clearly got to him amd the idea of not worrying about effects budgets and in his words "cranky season 7 TV stars" must have been appealing. All he had to do was have it drawn. Which is why there was a lot of crazy shit.

S10 and S11 he took a back seat though the plots were at least semi coherent, the art work was way better as they changed the Artists and less child like (the whole Buffy/Satsu bed scene artwork is disturbing in there child like depiction) panels and Spuffy actually became an adult relationship and moved on from the will they won't they crap.
Then Joss was back for S12 with his old artist that he loves and you had a big ole fat reset to Chosen in terms of character except Buffy is now a San Francisco cop !
 
I think while they have new scope to go crazy with the magic/demon fighting side of things (they seem to battle a Mayor snake sized demon every few issues 😂) there was also some major limitations with relationships for the main characters hence why there’s some really odd pairings and why most of the characters seem to live like nuns. They know there’d be a huge backlash from the fans if they made Buffy or Angel’s end game relationships with characters we’ve only ever met in the comics when there’s already a lot of ship bickering

They couldn’t create new love interests for our main characters as they’d never be able to give them the complexity of the tv characters so it’s easier to just use characters we already know. Hence Xander/Dawn Angel/Illyria and that really bizarre ‘Buffy has feelings for Xander’ storyline. The only character that gets ‘new’ love interests is Willow and even then they have to constantly reassure fans ‘don’t worry she still loves Tara the best’. If there’d been another 5 tv seasons there’s no way they’d have just bounced Buffy between Angel and Spike for another 5 years but in the comics they can’t create new love interests the fans would accept. Poor Faith has no love life whatsoever in the comics and lives like a nun as they ran out of characters to give her once they’d established she wasn’t with Robin 😂 (I admit I was happy everyone basically forgot about Robin’s existence in the comics) although in my head her and Buffy live happily ever after so she gets there in the end 😂
 
I've just read Season 8 Omnibus, Volume 1. So far, it seems pretty canonical to me!

I do wish they were organized more like "Season X, episode Y" instead of issues and parts and volumes and the like. As someone who is not well-versed in comics, it seems like a confusing way to tell a story. Too many small chunks, not enough indication of where each chunk fits chronologically.

The characters seem consistent, though. They are clearly extensions of who they were at the end of S7. A lot of the dialogue seems dead on. I love Xander. For me, opening the comics after so many years away from BtVS felt kind of like returning home after a long time away: some things were different, sure, but there is an underlying, core familiarity. Some of the visual images were really interesting and attention grabbing and artistic. There was one large panel that featured a close up of Dark Willow, only half her face in frame, with the image of Buffy reflected in her eye. Like... what? So cool. It seems like a good mix of visuals like that Willow shot, which would have been at home on the show, and funny visuals like Mecha Dawn vs. Tokyo or Willow's snake woman or witchy goddess guides, which the CGI and SFX capabilities of the show would have rendered ridiculous. Honestly, I like that the comics let us see more of the world, more creative character designs, larger battle scenes, and some interesting dreamscape and surreal imagery. It seems like what the show would or could have done with an unlimited budget and better CGI/SFX.

I realize that I am not far into the comics, so I reserve the right to change my mind; however, so far, the comics don't feel out of place to me. They seem very much a believable part of the Buffyverse.
 
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