M
Mr_Gordo
Guest
About the whole demon blood thing, I believe that demon was the last of his kind, and also it happened in season 1 before he even knew about the shanshu prophecy.
Discussion of 5.22 "Not Fade Away" (WB-US) - Airing 5/19/04
- Thread starter Buffy Summers
- Start date
Zander8472
Boomer/Canadian
Hey, we all have our opinions of the Finale's right?
I HATED the Buffy Finale, yet I thought the Angel Finale was Fantastic! could have been slightly better, but not by much. Anyone notice pretty much every character from the first season is dead?
Theres just Angel and David, and David hasn't been around since 2nd season. I've heard rumors about another spinoff, David Greenwalt and the other guy (sorry can't remember his name...not Joss), are going to create and run it.
anyway, the finale was so great I cried for a half hour, it also inspired me to come back to BB.
I left cause Its a busy period in my life, but schools ending, and Ive finally ended my musical (treasure island), so I have enough time to post.
So many possibilities....
I HATED the Buffy Finale, yet I thought the Angel Finale was Fantastic! could have been slightly better, but not by much. Anyone notice pretty much every character from the first season is dead?
Theres just Angel and David, and David hasn't been around since 2nd season. I've heard rumors about another spinoff, David Greenwalt and the other guy (sorry can't remember his name...not Joss), are going to create and run it.
anyway, the finale was so great I cried for a half hour, it also inspired me to come back to BB.
I left cause Its a busy period in my life, but schools ending, and Ive finally ended my musical (treasure island), so I have enough time to post.
So many possibilities....
SpikedBuffy
Love Isn't Brains
Holy Cow!
At first, I was very irritated at the ending. But, inevitably, I agree that we can't be shown all of them dying, so this was a better way. In my mind, I am asuming that they didn't make it, but they put up a fight and died trying.
But who knows, right?
Sad that Wes dies, but I knew it was going to happen. With everything that happened to him recently, he had to be the one that bit it.
I am seriously hooked on Illyria now. "I wish do to more violence now". Great!
It was a good ending. I would have preferred to not have an ending at all, and more episodes, but this made all of the characters come to a close, spending their last days and fighting.
And Spike's poetry. Come one people,how could you not love it? Effulgent, I knew it would be in there.
At first, I was very irritated at the ending. But, inevitably, I agree that we can't be shown all of them dying, so this was a better way. In my mind, I am asuming that they didn't make it, but they put up a fight and died trying.
But who knows, right?
Sad that Wes dies, but I knew it was going to happen. With everything that happened to him recently, he had to be the one that bit it.
I am seriously hooked on Illyria now. "I wish do to more violence now". Great!
It was a good ending. I would have preferred to not have an ending at all, and more episodes, but this made all of the characters come to a close, spending their last days and fighting.
And Spike's poetry. Come one people,how could you not love it? Effulgent, I knew it would be in there.
LadyLavinia said:
You want the truth.. you can't handle the truth...
LadyLavinia said:
The Cup of Perpetual Torment was a hoax, not the prophecy. Everything else in the prophecy, even the part about Angel having a son, had been coming to fruition.
LadyLavinia said:
Angel was going to play a MAJOR role in THE Apocalypse, not just "an" Apocalypse, as all the previous enemies in the Buffy/Angelverse had attempted. The series made clear that the Senior Partners were the TRUE bad guys of the Whedon-verse. The Powers That Be made ANGEL their champion, not Buffy. Buffy, and all slayers, were a human attempt at dealing with a demonic problem. Stone-age wizards made Buffy, The Powers That Be made Angel out of Liam. Buffy fought the same hopeless guerilla war that all slayers fought. In the end, she was/is a magic band-aid. Angel was THE major player in the good vs. evil war, and it's funny that I never saw that until this season.
LadyLavinia said:
She asked him because she knew the one thing Wes wanted was to see Fred again. It was emotional because we, the fans, get to see Fred kissing Wes good-bye, but also see Illyria grow emotionally as a person. Considering the fact that you loathe the Wes/Fred/Illyria storyline, your missing the point on the purpose of the scene is understandable.
LadyLavinia said:
He stopped the Senior Partner's secret immortal cartel from continuing their control over humanity from behind the scenes. Buffy blew up an LA suburb. And I don't think the show could've ended better.
LadyLavinia said:
He didn't die madly in love with Buffy (if that's who you mean). "A Girl in Question" was a funny attemept at dealing with Buffy in the Angelverse. Buffy is banging a new person, and Angel finally moves on. If there is anyone who Angel admitted to truly loving this season, it is defintely Cordelia.
LadyLavinia said:
Did you see Spike's last day on earth? In the end, he's not Spike, he's William - the guy nobody liked, still looking for love and acceptance. William finally got all of that, poetry included. His obsession with Buffy was just William's obsession with Cecily all over again, but this time, instead of being tolerated by mistrusting Scoobies, he was accepted by Angel's people - who didn't even see the transformation he went through.
LadyLavinia said:
They all hung around Angel because they were committed to the same things he was: fighting evil. Even Cordelia, who was just a self-obsessed child in the Buffyverse, became a fully realized human being with real emotions. Man, you really missed the boat on a great series. It was defintely more "grown-up" than Buffy, with characters that experienced much deeper human emotions than anyone in the other series.
You wanted answers, you got em. Oh, and one more thing....
::nono1::
nerd4hire
Certified Uncloneable
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- 9,102
I agree with Zombie, and you know the stuff he points outs is really kind of basic. There's no real excuse for missing it.
A lot of it is in black and white. I'm not going to go through it all. It's too much work. I'll do one for you Lady, because I'm a nice guy.
Perhaps if I slow it down for you, you'll be able to see it more clearly.
Here's a quote from the scene where Wes is wasting his last day on earth healling Illyria. He tells her without the one great love of his life, there is no "perfect" final day for him. She replies.
Later in the episode at Cyvus Vail's house, as Wes is dying we see this happen.
Figure it out.
A lot of it is in black and white. I'm not going to go through it all. It's too much work. I'll do one for you Lady, because I'm a nice guy.
Perhaps if I slow it down for you, you'll be able to see it more clearly.
Here's a quote from the scene where Wes is wasting his last day on earth healling Illyria. He tells her without the one great love of his life, there is no "perfect" final day for him. She replies.
Later in the episode at Cyvus Vail's house, as Wes is dying we see this happen.
Figure it out.
poptart
Care Bears Stare!!
FullOfGrace
Townie
OMG!!! Was this good, except for the end. I was so glad Angel went to see Conner, and knew he remembered. I'm glad Conner came to help Angel in the end. I laughed when Angel bit Hamilton, that was pretty funny, but hey I guess he said the wrong word. Yeah Hamilton made me mad when he made that refrence to Doyle, Cordelia, and Fred, that was mean. I could not believe Harmony was sleeping with him, gosh I really hate her. When Lorne killed Lindsay, I was really surprised, I didn't think he had it in him. OMG when Wes died, man was that sad. I cried whenever Ilyria turned into Fred. I cried so much. At least Wesley gets to be with Fred now. Eve looked so sad when Angel told her that Lindsay wasn't coming back for her, that was sad. Oh man did the end piss me off. what the crap I want to know what happend. I guess I can just assume that they all died, cause there is no way they could have fought all of those things. Well I'm sad that Angel is over, but I guess it can still live on when I buy my DVD's (but I'm trying to get all the Buffy ones first). Angel has been a great show, just sucks it had to end so soon.
FullOfGrace said:
The way I interpreted it, that was what Harmony did to keep Hamilton busy, like Angel asked her to. However, she obviously did betray him in exchange for (human?) blood during that, so yeah...
As for Lorne, I don't think the guy really did have it in him. He was a broken...man when he killed Lindsay, I think the poor guy got told to do it as his part in the plan by Angel...
FaithsTruCallin
Slain by Faith
DAMN YOU! just kidding. ;-) I was just about to post that exactly. After the last episode ended my friend said he only had 4 words for Lorne "You are a b...." I said come on man it's obvious. Angel made him kill Lindsey. duh. Come on don't you remember "Lorne I want you to go with Lindsey" "Alright, but when it's all over I'm out and don't come looking for me" (Paraphrasing). It's obvious. I love this guy *Mason*Mason said:
nerd4hire
Certified Uncloneable
- Joined
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Do you love me too? 🙂 The following was posted 3 pages earlier on this thread.
From there the conclusion is obvious. Angel either told Lorne to kill Lindsey, or Lorne had decided Lindsey had to die base on his reading of Lindsey's singing. Either way, Angel knew and approved it. He made a point of putting Lorne together with Lindsey.
nerd4hire said:
From there the conclusion is obvious. Angel either told Lorne to kill Lindsey, or Lorne had decided Lindsey had to die base on his reading of Lindsey's singing. Either way, Angel knew and approved it. He made a point of putting Lorne together with Lindsey.
FaithsTruCallin
Slain by Faith
Aww... of course. But the reason I was going to post that now was becuase someone said something about Lorne. And the reason I said that to him was becuase I damned him... DAMN YOU! I love you. There we go.nerd4hire said:
Guestage_87
Storyteller
I agree that Lorne was sent with Lindsey to kill him as ordered by Angel. Angel's reasonings: Well, it's pretty obvious that Lindsey was not part of the solution and if they went through with this and Lindsey survived, Angel wouldn't be around to thwart him, he basically wanted to kill any potential threat and Lindsey is defintely that. But why Lorne: LM would never see it coming, as Lindsey stated, Lorne is just flunky and not that good of a fighter and just way too good natured to kill someone. Basically Angel wanted the element of surprise that he couldn't get with Wes or Illyaria or Gunn or Spike. But I also think there was other reasoning. The person sent to do the Lindsey job wouldn't be making an outward assualt on the Black Thorn Societ, Lindsey would be doing most of the killing. Angel saw this as a chance to spare one of his own, without the wrath of the Senior Partners waiting for them. So he chose the most reluctant fighter and the person who stood the least chance of surviving the Partners onslaught, Lorne. And remember, Lorne really is peaceful and only got caught up with Angel and his posse because they destroyed his club several times and needed his help with alot of cases, Lorne wasn't really one to be involved in the good fight. So I believe that Angel spared him eternal torment and in turn used Lindsey to take that last slot on his team.
poptart
Care Bears Stare!!
you know that makes alot of sense... i never thought about the fact that lorne was never really one to fight, so if the S_P came after him he stood zero chance of livingGuestage_87 said:
in a way i think angel was trying to help him...but putting distance between him and the gang. gun, wes, spike, illy are all fighters.. willing to put the smack down whenever
good one guestage 87
I thought it was an awesome series ending!
I hope that the tv movies work out cuz it would let us know how they did at the end. I was kinda disappointed with Harmony but her character stayed true to how she'd really behave.
Maybe in the tv movies they'll have Lorne come back somehow too. Anyway, all in all it was excellent! Having them all do their separate battles before the final one together was genius!
I hope that the tv movies work out cuz it would let us know how they did at the end. I was kinda disappointed with Harmony but her character stayed true to how she'd really behave.
Maybe in the tv movies they'll have Lorne come back somehow too. Anyway, all in all it was excellent! Having them all do their separate battles before the final one together was genius!
Destructo Girl
you can't wait to fall
I loved the ending to Angel. And in my opinion, it was so much better than Buffy's ending. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Buffy. But the Angel ending was a little better.
I started crying when Illyria came in to find a dying Wesley. As soon as she transformed into Fred. I started to bawl. I don't cry that often, I tend to keep all my emotions inside. But I started crying like I never cried before. Lol. I also loved the part when Connor comes to help Angel. It was very geniune and real. And very sweet. I still wish that Sarah would have at least made a small appereance. Throughout the whole episode, I was waiting for her to pop up. (I personally thought Joss had somehow kept the secret of Sarah coming on the show and didn't show the name in the beginning of the credits, for dramatic effect.) I know, I know. I was in denial.
One of the best quotes of the episode-
Conner: "Have you ever written a resume before? Ever?"
Angel: "No. But I have very nice handwriting."
Conner: "You girl."
Lol. Sorry I thought that was great.
Illyria: Wes is dead. I'm feeling grief for him. I can't seem to control him. I wish to do more violence.
Exactly what I wanted to do too. Wished to do violence.
I was sooooo sad that Lindsey died too. I never liked Lindsey, but he seemed to be treading on the good side of the line. But I understand, he was still a threat. Lorne's last line is so fitting for him- "Good night, folks." And Lindsey knew one day Angel would kill him. He knew he would never defeat Angel. He just thought that Angel, himself, was going to kill him. Not Lorne. "A...flunky? Angel kills me!"
I will continue to be in denial. Thinking that Angel is not over. I will write my Angel Virtual season 6. But, Joss did leave me at a bad cliffhanger. Them knowing that they will die. I'll figure something out.
"Let's go to work."
I started crying when Illyria came in to find a dying Wesley. As soon as she transformed into Fred. I started to bawl. I don't cry that often, I tend to keep all my emotions inside. But I started crying like I never cried before. Lol. I also loved the part when Connor comes to help Angel. It was very geniune and real. And very sweet. I still wish that Sarah would have at least made a small appereance. Throughout the whole episode, I was waiting for her to pop up. (I personally thought Joss had somehow kept the secret of Sarah coming on the show and didn't show the name in the beginning of the credits, for dramatic effect.) I know, I know. I was in denial.
One of the best quotes of the episode-
Conner: "Have you ever written a resume before? Ever?"
Angel: "No. But I have very nice handwriting."
Conner: "You girl."
Lol. Sorry I thought that was great.
Illyria: Wes is dead. I'm feeling grief for him. I can't seem to control him. I wish to do more violence.
Exactly what I wanted to do too. Wished to do violence.
I was sooooo sad that Lindsey died too. I never liked Lindsey, but he seemed to be treading on the good side of the line. But I understand, he was still a threat. Lorne's last line is so fitting for him- "Good night, folks." And Lindsey knew one day Angel would kill him. He knew he would never defeat Angel. He just thought that Angel, himself, was going to kill him. Not Lorne. "A...flunky? Angel kills me!"
I will continue to be in denial. Thinking that Angel is not over. I will write my Angel Virtual season 6. But, Joss did leave me at a bad cliffhanger. Them knowing that they will die. I'll figure something out.
"Let's go to work."
Baron Samedi
Voted "Kick Ass!"
Well from what I've pieced together in speculation and other titbits let out from Joss and the crew etc. should Angel return (whether in a TV movie format or something else)...
It will have to be BIG. As in every movie has a major bad guy to defeat. Each show lasting 2hrs. David has said he would only return if the bar was higher. Thus we can expect better SFX.
Andy has said he would love to return so the appearance of Lorne is very likely. JAR seems to love playing Gunn so he's a definate.
Nina was supposed to be a regular next season to lighten the testosterone load on the show. And with the absence of Wesley comes Oz (yes Seth Green) to help Nina control her wolf abilities. I simply mean he replaces Wes on the roster not that he's the new book guy!
Obviously Illyria is a must. And I have a theory. Since Illyria was able to absorb Fred through what she described as electrical pulses at her death - what if she absorbed Wesley at his death? Then she could have a mix of both personalities or Wesley could appear to her as a guardian angel type character that no one else could see. Alternatively Wes could return as some sort of spirit. OK I know it's a stretch but I just don't want Wes to go!!
James has said there are talks of a Spike one off and then dependent on response we'll see what happens from there. If this goes ahead it is unlikely he will appear in Angel. But what would be more interesting is a Spike tv movie and an Angel tv movie in which both feature characters appear in each others movie at various points with both having a different story. Hence they happen at the same time but cross in an out with each other. That'd be awesome. Kind of like that film Timecode.
Baron
It will have to be BIG. As in every movie has a major bad guy to defeat. Each show lasting 2hrs. David has said he would only return if the bar was higher. Thus we can expect better SFX.
Andy has said he would love to return so the appearance of Lorne is very likely. JAR seems to love playing Gunn so he's a definate.
Nina was supposed to be a regular next season to lighten the testosterone load on the show. And with the absence of Wesley comes Oz (yes Seth Green) to help Nina control her wolf abilities. I simply mean he replaces Wes on the roster not that he's the new book guy!
Obviously Illyria is a must. And I have a theory. Since Illyria was able to absorb Fred through what she described as electrical pulses at her death - what if she absorbed Wesley at his death? Then she could have a mix of both personalities or Wesley could appear to her as a guardian angel type character that no one else could see. Alternatively Wes could return as some sort of spirit. OK I know it's a stretch but I just don't want Wes to go!!
James has said there are talks of a Spike one off and then dependent on response we'll see what happens from there. If this goes ahead it is unlikely he will appear in Angel. But what would be more interesting is a Spike tv movie and an Angel tv movie in which both feature characters appear in each others movie at various points with both having a different story. Hence they happen at the same time but cross in an out with each other. That'd be awesome. Kind of like that film Timecode.
Baron
Xander
You Can Call Me Ash
I think if they made a movie or something Wes would return in one form or another, I mean hes been in the 'verse' for 6 years so would be a bit harsh if they didn't at least include a flashback.
I don't think that Shanshu prophecy thing's really gone. If they ever make a continuation thing of Angel, maybe it will mention that Angel really could be human still since he signed it by his vamp name and not his human name. Didn't he have a different name when he was human? Plus if he really wanted to become human again why couldn't he just find another one of those demon that changed him into a human in the episode "I will remember you" And i think that in the very end Buffy and all the other new slayers should of came and helped or are thy battling their own battles in their own homes. Cuz why would every demon just go to LA if they're trying to destroy the world or whatever.