Discussion of 8.33 "Twilight Part 2" - Released 3/04/10 (Dark Horse)

[Tome]

Hmm... I just couldn't take it seriously. How the hell would they suddently have sex in the middle of what just happened and how would Willow even know???

 

[Tranquillity]

Hmm... I just couldn't take it seriously. How the hell would they suddently have sex in the middle of what just happened and how would Willow even know???

🙂 Well that would be becuase Buffy and Angel are up in the sky having a pash (that's kissing for all you non-australians, which would be most of you) and Willow is down below watching. No that doesn't sound stange at all :whistle:

 

[Tome]

No that doesn't sound stange at all

Right... =P This better not happen for real!

 

[VisionGuy]

I still haven't gotten my issue. I hate TFAW. They are always LATE!

 

[futureslayer]

I have to agree with everyone. I thought Buffy's character had evolved to the point where she didnt need Angel to complete her. He is manipulating her and using her love for him to his advantage. I really don't know or understand where Joss is going with this but i will continue reading. I have faith that Joss has some master plan.

Joss has successfully made me despise Angel. I'm not saying I was ever a huge fan of his but i could tolerate him but now after hearing what he had to say.

I highly dislike him. Hopefully next issue explains things better and the issue starts out with Buffy hitting him in the groin.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I have to agree with everyone. I thought Buffy's character had evolved to the point where she didnt need Angel to complete her. He is manipulating her and using her love for him to his advantage. I really don't know or understand where Joss is going with this but i will continue reading. I have faith that Joss has some master plan.

Joss has successfully made me despise Angel. I'm not saying I was ever a huge fan of his but i could tolerate him but now after hearing what he had to say.

I highly dislike him. Hopefully next issue explains things better and the issue starts out with Buffy hitting him in the groin.

Well I didn't say that. I think Buffy & Angel have demonstrated far greater strength apart, but that's not to say she's evolved beyond loving him or vice-versa...

On that same note, Spike is a far greater hero by late 2004 than he was by Buffy's side.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I have to agree with everyone. I thought Buffy's character had evolved to the point where she didnt need Angel to complete her. He is manipulating her and using her love for him to his advantage. I really don't know or understand where Joss is going with this but i will continue reading. I have faith that Joss has some master plan.

Oh, I completely agree. Buffy needs no one to complete her. She is her own person.

Joss has successfully made me despise Angel. I'm not saying I was ever a huge fan of his but i could tolerate him but now after hearing what he had to say.

I know. Me, too. I'm not sure where Joss is going with making his fans hate the hero of his 'verse, but I guess we have to wait and see.

I highly dislike him. Hopefully next issue explains things better and the issue starts out with Buffy hitting him in the groin.

Agreed.

Damn your right i always forget his poems.

I´m so confused. So back to square one.

I dont like it but i can see a pregnant Buffy in season 9. I hope im wrong about that.

God, talk about recycling a storyline. We already had Pregnant!Darla and Pregnant!Cordy...neither which ended up well, I might add.

But it looks like they are sleeping together in issue 34 so its possible. Buffy must have lost his mind throuigh a spell or something. Her free will gets right out of the window when Twilight starts his monologue. I regret reading the whole twilight issue.

Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that they're boinking in the next issue. The look on Willow's face, along with her statement, says it all.

Its a long shot but what you think about Jasmine from the Angel series? Cordy was glowing when she gave birth to her. She was also glowing when she used her power once when she was a higher beeing.

Interesting theory. And there are no long shots in the Buffyverse, lol. Anything can and does happen. Yet, this would be just yet another recycled storyline...Cordy already became a higher being.

Worst case scenario: Buffy and Angel become gods and act as the big bad and Xander is the only one who can stop them.

UGH, this sounds awful...Angel and Buffy as GODS? Absurd. I could see Xander trying to stop them and getting killed in the process. You think this whole thing caused a freakout in the fandom...Xander's death would cause a riot.

Best case scenario: Spike arrives and beats the crap out of Angel so Buffy can think clearly and together they fight against Twilight.

Spike has always been the voice of reason in the 'verse. As much as I'd love for him to come in and "save the day", I'd rather Buffy save herself and come to her own senses. The least thing I want is another fight over Buffy between Spike and Angel. We've seen that before.

Spuffy scenario: Spike kills Twilight. Turns back the time and fights from now on at Buffys side. Come on Joss. Buffy deserves some happines in her life. They are the perfect couple. Period!

I don't know if I could deal with Spike killing Angel. I still love Angel, and haven't given up on him yet.

My favorite character killing one of my other favorite characters would be...too much for me.

Although, I do believe Spike was at his best when he was fighting at Buffy's side, as her equal. My ideal Spuffy-ending would be Spike coming in to help Buffy with one last battle, them having a heart-to-heart, him telling her that she's still a "hell of a woman", perhaps a kiss, and THEN them parting on good, yet bittersweet terms. For Spuffy, there is no future. Joss won't ever allow that, I believe. The best we can hope for is she finds out he's alive and perhaps that their relationship is respected, as Allie said. I'm not rooting for a Big Happy Spuffy ending. That's not in the cards.

In the end, Buffy won't end up "happy" in the traditional sense, I don't think. She'll die fighting for her duty. Heroes fight and die alone, traditionally. That's how I want to see her go out. If Spike were by her side in this, it would be even better, but I doubt that's what Joss has in mind. For him, it's all about Angel and Buffy. I'm not sure how Spike really fits in. But as others have pointed out, it is strange that Spike isn't around trying to stop Angel from what he's doing. Makes me fear for Spike, and where he is.

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------

Well I didn't say that. I think Buffy & Angel have demonstrated far greater strength apart, but that's not to say she's evolved beyond loving him or vice-versa...

I totally agree. They're both extraordinary characters who grew apart, but that doesn't mean they don't still love each other.

On that same note, Spike is a far greater hero by late 2004 than he was by Buffy's side.

Yes, I do prefer Spike when he's doing his own thing and not in Buffy's shadow. But on the other hand, his love for her was what caused him to rise above being a monster and what inspired him to be a hero...

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 AM ----------

Well I didn't say that. I think Buffy & Angel have demonstrated far greater strength apart, but that's not to say she's evolved beyond loving him or vice-versa...

I totally agree. They're both extraordinary characters who grew apart, but that doesn't mean they don't still love each other.

On that same note, Spike is a far greater hero by late 2004 than he was by Buffy's side.

Yes, I do prefer Spike when he's doing his own thing and not in Buffy's shadow. But on the other hand, his love for her was what caused him to rise above being a monster and what inspired him to be a hero...

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

God, talk about recycling a storyline. We already had Pregnant!Darla and Pregnant!Cordy...neither which ended up well, I might add.

Well everyone hated pregnant!Cordy!Jasmine (Charisma especially), but personally, I thought Pregnant!Darla was kind of beautiful.

Darla, Angelus' Century-long mate, and the senior member of the most infamous vampire group in history, was killed off in a few episodes early on. I think her last death was most fitting.

That's not to mention that this was the first contained vampire-with-a-soul storyline we got to see, as Angel & Spike are in it for the long haul (and Lawson just had a glimmer of a soul).

 

[Buffy4ever2k10]

Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that they're boinking in the next issue. The look on Willow's face, along with her statement, says it all.

UGH, this sounds awful...Angel and Buffy as GODS? Absurd. I could see Xander trying to stop them and getting killed in the process. You think this whole thing caused a freakout in the fandom...Xander's death would cause a riot.

I wonder how Willow knows what they are doing. A connection to Twilight maybe or just another witch thing?

Okay they dont become gods that would just be hilarious but Angel needs Buffy to become something else. What could it be?

I´m going with the pregnant thing.

Angel:It´s singing. It´s joy Buffy. You and I dont have a lot of experience with joy. But I feel it. Being this close to you, I feel a connection even i wasn´t prepared for. Forget what I said about history this isn´t just history. This is us Buffy. This is our future.

This part screams baby loud and clear.

The unholy power line bugs me too. A unholy source is not really a good sign. In season 7 the 3 shadowmen grant her unholy power too but she refuses to take it because she would lose some of her humanity. And now all of a sudden its okay that the source of her and his power is unholy? Sorry but Buffy wouldn´t act like that.

Of course a spell or something would be just lame but i hope something like that is happening.

I dont trust Giles. He has secrets again and again. I wish he would at least for one time come straight forward with all his shit he hides from the scoobies.

If Buffy turns on the scoobies i dont want to see Xanders reaction. It would just break my heart. He is my third favorite charakter of all time.

Damn i´ve got so many thoughts and theories about the whole Twilight story. I should stop or my head will explode.

 

[Tranquillity]

Can I also put my hand up to vote a resounding "NO" to Mystical Pregnancy and Becoming Gods? Just. . . no.

 

[white avenger]

The glow thingy is pretty interesting and its not the first time its mentioned in the buffyverse. Im watching Season 7 right now and in same time same place in the basement Spike said Buffy is glowing but nobody can see it except him. It makes no sense in season 7 but now its mentioned in season 8 again. There is no reason for Spike calling Buffy glowing or did i missed something?

I thought maybe this could be another hint with the glow thing or maybe not. Im really confused about season 8 and the direction its headed.

Spike was still in the basement at this point and nearly insane but the first was there too.

Just my thoughts.

Sorry for my english but i´m just a german. 🙂

There might be some significance to the fact that Spike, in his mentally unstable state in Season 7 would notice a glow around Buffy that no one else could see. Remember that Tara noticed the same thing about Dawn in Season 5 when she was in a similar mental state. Joss is really good about tossing in little hints and tie-in elements months or even years ahead of springing the big answer, so maybe he's done that again. That leaves hope for me that we will one day know the real reason that Buffy and Spike's hands ignited in the hellmouth, but didn't burn.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I wonder how Willow knows what they are doing. A connection to Twilight maybe or just another witch thing?

Okay they dont become gods that would just be hilarious but Angel needs Buffy to become something else. What could it be?

No, I agree it's definitely possible...I'm just in denial, lol.

Angel:It´s singing. It´s joy Buffy. You and I dont have a lot of experience with joy. But I feel it. Being this close to you, I feel a connection even i wasn´t prepared for. Forget what I said about history this isn´t just history. This is us Buffy. This is our future.

This part screams baby loud and clear.

Well, this may be true, but...

The unholy power line bugs me too. A unholy source is not really a good sign. In season 7 the 3 shadowmen grant her unholy power too but she refuses to take it because she would lose some of her humanity. And now all of a sudden its okay that the source of her and his power is unholy? Sorry but Buffy wouldn´t act like that.

Of course a spell or something would be just lame but i hope something like that is happening.

Agreed. Everything about the way Buffy is acting is out of character.

I dont trust Giles. He has secrets again and again. I wish he would at least for one time come straight forward with all his shit he hides from the scoobies.

I agree. I can't trust him anymore either, not after everything he's done; lying to Buffy in 'Helpless, betraying and tricking her in his attempt to get Spike killed and now - keeping this massive secret...he's certainly changed a lot, and obviously can not be trusted.

If Buffy turns on the scoobies i dont want to see Xanders reaction. It would just break my heart. He is my third favorite charakter of all time

I sure hope Buffy wouldn't turn on all her friends just for chance to get groiny with Angel again. I can only hope that she's under some sort of thrall...

Although my appreciation for Xander has increased in this season, he's not one of my favorites. Despite this, I'd be horrified if he was killed off. The effect it would have on Willow and Buffy would be devastating. Xander is Buffy's closest friend right now, and the resentment that is most likely going to ensue between them if she choses Angel over him would positively break my heart.

Damn i´ve got so many thoughts and theories about the whole Twilight story. I should stop or my head will explode.

Welcome to the bandwagen, friend. We're all full of questions with no answers. We're all confused and horrified and angry. We just want an explanation.

---------- Post added at 06:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------

There might be some significance to the fact that Spike, in his mentally unstable state in Season 7 would notice a glow around Buffy that no one else could see.

Ooh, true, true. Also, he said she glowed in "Helles Belles." This might be a stretch, but perhaps Joss ALWAYS had the plan to make Buffy all glowy for whatever reason we are soon to find out. Perhaps that comment from Spike was meant as a foreshadowing.

Remember that Tara noticed the same thing about Dawn in Season 5 when she was in a similar mental state. Joss is really good about tossing in little hints and tie-in elements months or even years ahead of springing the big answer, so maybe he's done that again. That leaves hope for me that we will one day know the real reason that Buffy and Spike's hands ignited in the hellmouth, but didn't burn.

Oh my gosh, I never thought of why their hands didn't burn when they clasped. That moment between them with the burning hands is just so symbolically beautiful, I guess I never gave thought to how it was physically possible. My theory is that their love was so strong it transcended the physical realm for a moment...or maybe that's just my inner romantic speaking. Or hell, maybe it was just suspension of disbelief for dramatic purposes. I guess what happened was that Buffy's hand didn't burn because she's the Slayer, and Spike was already burning so he could take it? *ponders*

 

[InsaneMystic]

Can I add the physical possibility question on...

I touch the fire and it freezes me [...] why can't I feel, my skin should crack and peel. I want the fire back!

If we're getting on to Joss tossing around hints years beforehand, maybe this one was not just metaphore for "I am clinically depressive" either.

Dunno if I should like where this is going, but I can't help feeling that it adds up to something.

 

[Vengeance]

I'm leaning toward the mystical pregnancy angle just from reading the comics. I really hope they don't go there, Buffy already has a sister to watch over. I can't imagine what it would do to poor Dawnie to have to be even more abandoned.

I can't imagine what Giles is doing behind Buffy's back that he wouldn't want to tell her about it. I mean, he betrayed her in season 7 but you could at least figure out his intentions were somewhat good. Here, it seems like he's hiding something perhaps to protect her from something.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I don't think they'll go with a pregnancy story. It's too late in the season to introduce something like that.

Not only that, but I would consider it the ultimate shark-jumping moment for BtVS.

I think the situation between Buffy and Angel is going to change a lot (maybe several times) before the end.

 

[Buffy4ever2k10]

I don´t like the mystical pregnancy and the glowing thing. I think it´s possible that´s all.

Do we know where the unholy power comes from? The source can´t be the Scythe or can it? The PTB,W&H(hell no please) or just a spell dont really fit either. Maybe the old ones but whats their agenda to give them so much power?

If the source of their powers is slayer related why does Angel got it too and before Buffy? Angel cant be a slayer. That´s for sure.

So many questions and no answers. A weekly release would be so much better.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Do we know where the unholy power comes from? The source can´t be the Scythe or can it?

My theory:

It's coming through the Scythe (which I think has merged with Buffy somehow)... but the source of it is the force called "Twilight" which Angel has been fronting for. "Twilight" is the balance between dark and light, and I think this Twilight is a force that is trying to balance good and evil in the world.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

My theory:

It's coming through the Scythe (which I think has merged with Buffy somehow)... but the source of it is the force called "Twilight" which Angel has been fronting for. "Twilight" is the balance between dark and light, and I think this Twilight is a force that is trying to balance good and evil in the world.

I kind of hate that idea, mainly because it was just used and horribly implemented in Kelley Armstrong's Angel: Aftermath.

I mean, the moderating force between pure good and pure evil was the primary theme of Aftermath, and it was a bad ripoff of Minority Report among other things.

Not to mention the fact that TPTB aren't pure and ultimate goodness from what I've seen...

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I kind of hate that idea, mainly because it was just used and horribly implemented in Kelley Armstrong's Angel: Aftermath.

I mean, the moderating force between pure good and pure evil was the primary theme of Aftermath, and it was a bad ripoff of Minority Report among other things.

Not to mention the fact that TPTB aren't pure and ultimate goodness from what I've seen...

I'm not saying that Buffy is going to accept that balance as something good, in the end.

We've all been conditioned by fantasy stories to think that the idea of "balance" is automatically a good thing, but that's an arbitrary judgment. Buffy's entire life has been about tilting the balance in favor of good... she just needs to find the mission again.

Of course, the absolute triumph of good or evil would result in a state of stagnation and slow death, which may prove to be an issue after Buffy banishes all the demons from the world.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I'm not saying that Buffy is going to accept that balance as something good, in the end.

We've all been conditioned by fantasy stories to think that the idea of "balance" is automatically a good thing, but that's an arbitrary judgment. Buffy's entire life has been about tilting the balance in favor of good... she just needs to find the mission again.

Of course, the absolute triumph of good or evil would result in a state of stagnation and slow death, which may prove to be an issue after Buffy banishes all the demons from the world.

Hey, if Fray doesn't turn out to be an alt!timeline then we know Buffy pretty much loses any way (even if she does usher in an era of peace for her generation).