Season 6 is underrated

[Dora]

I lived through a violently abusive relationship for three years. I also initiated the relationship by kissing him for the first time, and I'm pretty sure I also initiated sex the first time we had it. Does that now mean that I wasn't abused? That the violence and emotional abuse he put me through doesn't count, because hey, I started it!

Who initiated what has nothing to do with anything. Just because Buffy initiated a physical relationship, that doesn't mean that Spike had the right to continually touch her without her consent after that (which he frequently did).

While my history with abuse doesn't make me an expert on the matter by any means, it does mean that I recognise abusive patterns in fictional relationships, often because they trigger me. It also means that I have a certain understanding on the mind-frame of abuse victims.

If I had had the strength, I would have beaten my "so-called" abuser within an inch of his life for what he put me through.

Also, telling Spike he's "convenient" is hardly abuse. She isn't trying to isolate him, she isn't trying to degrade him. Spike isn't suffering debilitating mental illness during the relationship. They aren't on equal ground during Season 6 and Buffy is clearly victimized by Spike throughout the entire season.

I feel for Buffy because I was abused as a child, I did not tell anyone , I let myself be put into a position where it could happen again , i did not stop it happening to me when it was happening.....Why ? as Buffy I have no idea , mine only stopped when I was injured and needed medical help , Buffy's stop when she was mentally strong enough to stop it
So many parallels to myself and the abuse Buffy suffered at the hands of Spike , Spike is taking advantage of a mentally ill Buffy, I see it , I feel it ,

 

[katmobile]

I feel for Buffy because I was abused as a child, I did not tell anyone , I let myself be put into a position where it could happen again , i did not stop it happening to me when it was happening.....Why ? as Buffy I have no idea , mine only stopped when I was injured and needed medical help , Buffy's stop when she was mentally strong enough to stop it
So many parallels to myself and the abuse Buffy suffered at the hands of Spike , Spike is taking advantage of a mentally ill Buffy, I see it , I feel it ,

I understand that as much as I'm able to but Buffy isn't a child. I know some things reasonate and trigger that's understandable our minds seek patterns and never more so than to keep us safe and avoid danger but she isn't you nor is she defenseless. However ill she is she has agency and she participating in her own dance for her own reasons I can see why you and Rachel see parallels and they're not entirely unjustified but abuse is about power imbalance. Buffy has power she's treading in darkness partly because the need to feel something, anything is compelling her Spike isn't helping and his reasons are selfish but his own view is distorted.

I'm not asking you guys to change your opinion just acknowledge that it's not necessarily the only interpretation.

When it comes to the program and I think to an extent Spike. The phrase that it's usually ignorance not malice behind things. I don't think Joss or Marti had any idea of how triggering this stuff would be to some people - yes they should have done but against the tight deadlines of TV there's not necessarily the time to do the homework people maybe should. Buffy and Angel's messaging can get confused and the real and unreal merge too close for comfort. What I take issue with is denouncing people as sick for not getting that. Sometimes what does damage is what is not understood.

 

[Cheese Slices]

Sigh... you'll find plenty of people who are skeeved out by Buffy/Angel, Xander/Anya or Willow/Tara and will tell you about the abusive aspects of each relationship.
You'll also find people who are on the contrary completely engrossed with the story and are completely able to sympathise with each of these characters.
Most importantly, you'll find people who have been through similar ordeals as the ones mentioned above, and who absolutely love Spike and/or Buffy and/or Spike and Buffy together. You can have the same experience and yet view things completely differently. You are not Buffy, and your abusers are not Spike. He disgusts you and makes you feel bad ? No problem, and I am sorry that you feel triggered. But the same could happen with any character. Why go on this huge crusade and pick at your own wounds ? It's pointless. Because believe it or not, you'll find people with the same experience who identify with Spike, and they are able to do so because what we get is a hell lot more complicated than what you're suggesting.

When it comes to the program and I think to an extent Spike. The phrase that it's usually ignorance not malice behind things. I don't think Joss or Marti had any idea of how triggering this stuff would be to some people

It's true but I also think, at the end of the day, if you remove every potentially triggering stuff from your story, then there will be very little left of it, at least in most cases.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

A number of people have said that Spike was taking advantage of a "mentally ill" Buffy. This seems to be a relatively facile way of avoiding the nature of her state of mind. Was she mentally ill after her mother died? Or is grief exempt from being labelled mental illness? Was her catatonic state after Dawn was captured by Glory mental illness? "The Weight of the World" definitely showed this to be a version of mental illness. Is there some entry in the DSM with the appropriate acronym for the events of Season 6? Maybe HLS for Heaven Loss Syndrome or some such thing.

What we know is:

1. Buffy was content with her state during the 148 days she was dead.
2. Willow took her out of this safe place and thought she was doing Buffy a favour (as well as stoking her own pride in what she could do).
3. Her friends were all in favour of pushing Buffy in the direction of "business as usual".
4. She wanted to spare the feelings of the others in the core four, so she could not talk to them about what the real situation was.
5. There was no such problem with talking to Spike, who would not have approved of magic for resurrection.
6. Spike had shown himself to be the most perspicacious of her acquaintances - he knew Willow was "hanging on by a thread" when Oz left and he knew nothing would appease Hus in "Pangs". He knew Buffy and Angel could never be friends. And he almost succeeded in "The Yoko Factor" at splitting the scoobies apart by his knowledge of psychology. The rest of her friends were definitely obtuse about such things.
7. There was no question Buffy was attracted to Spike and Spike's sacrifice in "Intervention" impressed her, as did Spike's care for Dawn when he had no prospect of anything to gain from it.

Spike and Buffy both got something out of their relationship. It was not limited to sex - Buffy could let her hair down with Spike in a way she never could with the scoobies. The relationship was mutually abusive at times but they both thought the benefits outweighed the drawbacks. Riley succeeded in making Buffy feel ashamed but it didn't change anything.

 

[Dora]

A number of people have said that Spike was taking advantage of a "mentally ill" Buffy. This seems to be a relatively facile way of avoiding the nature of her state of mind. Was she mentally ill after her mother died? Or is grief exempt from being labelled mental illness? Was her catatonic state after Dawn was captured by Glory mental illness? "The Weight of the World" definitely showed this to be a version of mental illness. Is there some entry in the DSM with the appropriate acronym for the events of Season 6? Maybe HLS for Heaven Loss Syndrome or some such thing.

What we know is:

1. Buffy was content with her state during the 148 days she was dead.
2. Willow took her out of this safe place and thought she was doing Buffy a favour (as well as stoking her own pride in what she could do).
3. Her friends were all in favour of pushing Buffy in the direction of "business as usual".
4. She wanted to spare the feelings of the others in the core four, so she could not talk to them about what the real situation was.
5. There was no such problem with talking to Spike, who would not have approved of magic for resurrection.
6. Spike had shown himself to be the most perspicacious of her acquaintances - he knew Willow was "hanging on by a thread" when Oz left and he knew nothing would appease Hus in "Pangs". He knew Buffy and Angel could never be friends. And he almost succeeded in "The Yoko Factor" at splitting the scoobies apart by his knowledge of psychology. The rest of her friends were definitely obtuse about such things.
7. There was no question Buffy was attracted to Spike and Spike's sacrifice in "Intervention" impressed her, as did Spike's care for Dawn when he had no prospect of anything to gain from it.

Spike and Buffy both got something out of their relationship. It was not limited to sex - Buffy could let her hair down with Spike in a way she never could with the scoobies. The relationship was mutually abusive at times but they both thought the benefits outweighed the drawbacks. Riley succeeded in making Buffy feel ashamed but it didn't change anything.

My point exactly Spike knew, Spike knew the Buffy before her death and resurrection would not have got anyway near him sexually , Spike took advantage of Buffy,once Giles up and walked out on her , Spike knew she was not right mentally .....you've come back wrong Buffy confided in Spike as someone she could talk to but instead of being a friend he became her abuser
Buffy wanted Spike she , told him I want you but its killing me , not sure there was any benefit for Buffy , she went to Spike as a sort of self harming , she had been expelled from heaven , Suffering depression, suffering from Stress, from PTSD ,thinking she was no longer normal, Buffy knew it was wrong , but felt she deserved no better , and had no understanding why she let Spike do things to her

 

[Dora]

I understand that as much as I'm able to but Buffy isn't a child. I know some things reasonate and trigger that's understandable our minds seek patterns and never more so than to keep us safe and avoid danger but she isn't you nor is she defenseless. However ill she is she has agency and she participating in her own dance for her own reasons I can see why you and Rachel see parallels and they're not entirely unjustified but abuse is about power imbalance. Buffy has power she's treading in darkness partly because the need to feel something, anything is compelling her Spike isn't helping and his reasons are selfish but his own view is distorted.

I'm not asking you guys to change your opinion just acknowledge that it's not necessarily the only interpretation.

When it comes to the program and I think to an extent Spike. The phrase that it's usually ignorance not malice behind things. I don't think Joss or Marti had any idea of how triggering this stuff would be to some people - yes they should have done but against the tight deadlines of TV there's not necessarily the time to do the homework people maybe should. Buffy and Angel's messaging can get confused and the real and unreal merge too close for comfort. What I take issue with is denouncing people as sick for not getting that. Sometimes what does damage is what is not understood.

Buffy is treading in Darkness because she is mentally ill ,
As for the program James Masters has said that although Spike was written as evil the writing staff could not understand why people kept sympathising with Spike he said it was the way he played Spike
Whedon had issues with Sarah by this time , Sarah complained constantly through S6 she hated the whole sex thing between Buffy and Spike one of the main reason she did not sign after her contract run out at the end of S7
Marti Noxon has said that they went to far , that Buffy issues, where really her issues,the darkness , the bad boyfriend , the attempted rape etc
What I hate most about S6 apart from the destruction of the core four characters to promote Spuffy is I have no doubt it hastens the end of BTVS

 

[TriBel]

A number of people have said that Spike was taking advantage of a "mentally ill" Buffy. This seems to be a relatively facile way of avoiding the nature of her state of mind. Was she mentally ill after her mother died? Or is grief exempt from being labelled mental illness? Was her catatonic state after Dawn was captured by Glory mental illness? "The Weight of the World" definitely showed this to be a version of mental illness. Is there some entry in the DSM with the appropriate acronym for the events of Season 6? Maybe HLS for Heaven Loss Syndrome or some such thing.

Was she mentally ill after her mother died? I usually try to avoid the term "mental illness" in a fictional text unless diagnosis by a mental health professional is part of the narrative. Sometimes a person's state of mind is a reasonable response to an unreasonable situation (it's society not the individual who's sick). In Buffy's case, the label I'd use is "melancholia" - partly because it has a rich history in the arts (so not dependent on the DSM) and partly because it's been developed by certain schools of psychoanalytic thought/feminism to address the relationship between children/mothers and I think the loss of Joyce is central to Buffy's state of mind. Note how she rallies in Chosen when The First mentions "Mummy".

Melancholia in the Freudian sense is a failure to grieve "properly" - to mourn the deceased and let them go. I think the reappearance of Joyce in S7 is telling. Even more telling is Joyce's "reincarnation" in S12 and a comment in S10 about the trauma of Joyce's death. "The Body" links the moment of her mum's death specifically to Buffy being the slayer (and a demon).

JOYCE: (quietly to Buffy) You are a demon child.
BUFFY: I live to torment you, is that so wrong?

It's an involuntary flashback, which suggests the concept is lodged in Buffy's unconscious.

Buffy's description of Heaven (and she only "thinks" she was in Heaven) is a perfect description of "intrauterine existence" and being at one with the mother. Plus, her reincarnation is replete with birth imagery. LOL! After this, it gets complicated 🙂. Suffice to say, I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head.

TBH, the complexity of this is why I like S5/6/7 and the reason for my interest in BtVS. I only started to regret S6 when I realised it "triggered" some people.

 

[katmobile]

Buffy is treading in Darkness because she is mentally ill ,
As for the program James Masters has said that although Spike was written as evil the writing staff could not understand why people kept sympathising with Spike he said it was the way he played Spike
Whedon had issues with Sarah by this time , Sarah complained constantly through S6 she hated the whole sex thing between Buffy and Spike one of the main reason she did not sign after her contract run out at the end of S7
Marti Noxon has said that they went to far , that Buffy issues, where really her issues,the darkness , the bad boyfriend , the attempted rape etc
What I hate most about S6 apart from the destruction of the core four characters to promote Spuffy is I have no doubt it hastens the end of BTVS

Buffy may have been ill but she wasn't insane and incapable of making decisions and she choose to tango. I think she did it partly because he wasn't a good person so she could justify to herself treating him poorly on some level.

I don't have to agree with Sarah's take she's an intelligent woman but does she understand depression? Has she experienced it? A lot of people who have relate to season six and what Buffy does.

I do understand what they were trying to say about Spike in season six and it needed to be said but I think that maybe they pushed it too far. It's hard to know with TV how much is planned and how much is reactive and sometimes it trips itself up because of it. Also I'm sorry if they didn't want Spike to be sympathetic they shouldn't have shown his background as a woobie rejected by everyone as a human.

I found there was a list of triggering shit and most of my favourite characters were on it including Willow and Faith. Initially I wondered what that said about me, however I think the point of indentification was that they were all outsiders and it was their own issues related to that which led to becoming abusers rather them being abusers.

I don't think Sarah's bad experiences on season six were the sole reason Buffy stopped - seven seasons is quite a good run. Joss was going to quit as he felt he'd told the stories he wanted to. Sarah was tired as it was a big commitment and a lot of work. James Marsters said the show was known as Buffy the weekend slayer because the time committments involved. Alyson Hannigan that Sarah worked her ass off. Sarah just got married, may have realised she'd want a family at some point and wanted some more flexibility in how she worked and she was looking pretty tired and getting colds due to being run down. Wanting a break and to do other work is understandable after seven years. She may have reached that point without disliking season six.

Also if you didn't like the direction the show went in why are you bothered we didn't get more? If you dislike Marti - which you've said some pretty assumptive, nasty stuff about her in the past - why are quoting her here?

Many try to rewrite the series in their own way as is their right but most of the efforts to do so have convinced me that no they couldn't do a better job than the writing we already got.

 

[Cheese Slices]

Buffy is treading in Darkness because she is mentally ill ,
As for the program James Masters has said that although Spike was written as evil the writing staff could not understand why people kept sympathising with Spike he said it was the way he played Spike
Whedon had issues with Sarah by this time , Sarah complained constantly through S6 she hated the whole sex thing between Buffy and Spike one of the main reason she did not sign after her contract run out at the end of S7
Marti Noxon has said that they went to far , that Buffy issues, where really her issues,the darkness , the bad boyfriend , the attempted rape etc
What I hate most about S6 apart from the destruction of the core four characters to promote Spuffy is I have no doubt it hastens the end of BTVS

Buffy's darker side has always been present and has been introduced as early as S2.
Being depressed (and that's just our general interpretation of what she's going through in S6 - it's more complicated than that) does not make you incapable of making your own choices. I've made some bad choices during my depressive episodes, but they were my choices.
Finally, you're cherry picking actors and staff statements and dialing it up to 11. SMG has a very romantic view of Buffy, which is fine, but she is only part of the creative process when it comes to the character. The writers were obviously interested in making her more morally grey (again, way before S6), and they are also a huge part of Buffy the character. Also, let us stop acting as if Sarah was ready to jump off a cliff every day of shooting S6; when you watch the dailies for the season, she's mostly cheery and joking around.
Noxon has also given a lot of interviews in which she said that the "bad relationship" thing had been distributed to both Spike and Buffy, making it mutually abusive. The show also goes beyond that and we get genuinely sweet moments between the two.
You're cutting corners to make a square fit into a circle here.
Final word: behind the scenes stuff is incredibly fickle and no matter how hard we investigate and speculate, we'll never know the truth of it. Staff members tend to say contradictory things, they change their minds or they don't have time to elaborate and put some nuance in their statement. At the end of the day, some bts stuff is nice to know, but what we get on screen stands on its own.

 

[Btvs fan]

Buffy's darker side has always been present and has been introduced as early as S2.
Being depressed (and that's just our general interpretation of what she's going through in S6 - it's more complicated than that) does not make you incapable of making your own choices. I've made some bad choices during my depressive episodes, but they were my choices.
Finally, you're cherry picking actors and staff statements and dialing it up to 11. SMG has a very romantic view of Buffy, which is fine, but she is only part of the creative process when it comes to the character. The writers were obviously interested in making her more morally grey (again, way before S6), and they are also a huge part of Buffy the character. Also, let us stop acting as if Sarah was ready to jump off a cliff every day of shooting S6; when you watch the dailies for the season, she's mostly cheery and joking around.
Noxon has also given a lot of interviews in which she said that the "bad relationship" thing had been distributed to both Spike and Buffy, making it mutually abusive. The show also goes beyond that and we get genuinely sweet moments between the two.
You're cutting corners to make a square fit into a circle here.
Final word: behind the scenes stuff is incredibly fickle and no matter how hard we investigate and speculate, we'll never know the truth of it. Staff members tend to say contradictory things, they change their minds or they don't have time to elaborate and put some nuance in their statement. At the end of the day, some bts stuff is nice to know, but what we get on screen stands on its own.

It also ignores the fact SMG originally pushed for getting Spike and Buffy together. She just didn't like how it was done. Besides which working 16 hour days for 7 years straight with a creative team that was clearly burnt out by the end while wanting to pursue a Movie career all would've had been bigger issues than what fictional relationship her fictional character was in.

Dora blames Marti a lot and many fans blamed her for anything they didn't like back in the day. They do that because in there minds Joss is God so they aren't going to blame him. Nothing repeat nothing got on screen without Joss Whedons say so. Even if he wasn't on set much during S6 (and he was back for S7) he still went through all the scripts and inserted or changed things he didn't like.
To be honest it was always shameful on Joss to let others carry the blame and not stand up more for his writers back in the day. He's very passive aggressive in how he does things which I'm not a fan off.

 

[Cheese Slices]

also ignores the fact SMG originally pushed for getting Spike and Buffy together. S

ah,careful, some heads might explode from reading this.

it was always shameful on Joss to let others carry the blame and not stand up more for his writers back in the day. He's

to be fair to Joss he did write an extensive defense of Marti back in the days pretty much saying what you've stated in your post. so he did that right, if anything.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Also worth mentioning is the number of times Buffy just punches Spike in the face because she felt like it, or he was just there, etc. That was including before she died as well as after. The scoobies did tend to treat Spike poorly because they knew he couldn't hurt them because of the chip in his head (which was annoyingly treated as an impotence joke rather than the violation that it was). Those that did treat him nicely, aka Joyce and Dawn, he got along with.

 

[one eyed chicklet]

I don’t like it much because I don’t enjoy watching Buffy depressed and making bad choices because she hates herself in that whole season. That being said, Bargaining, OMWF and Tabula Rasa are some of my favourite episodes of the whole show.

 

[Honoria Dedlock]

ah,careful, some heads might explode from reading this.

to be fair to Joss he did write an extensive defense of Marti back in the days pretty much saying what you've stated in your post. so he did that right, if anything.

I never got the hate for Marti Noxon. I always thought she was one of the stronger writers in the show, but then again, I LOVE season 6.

She also created unReal which had a great first season when she was showrunner. It only fell apart after she left. Which I guess is the reverse of what people thought happened with Btvs!

 

[Btvs fan]

ah,careful, some heads might explode from reading this.

to be fair to Joss he did write an extensive defense of Marti back in the days pretty much saying what you've stated in your post. so he did that right, if anything.

I could've gone even further if I'd wanted too. All those who are talking about real life abuse should know that an Adult first observing a 15 year old/dating her when she is 16 and sleeping with her at 17 is a standard pattern often used by Groomers.... There was even a TV show called 3 Girls in the UK recently about 3 15 yr olds being groomed it wasn't pretty.

 

[vampmogs]

Those that did treat him nicely, aka Joyce and Dawn, he got along with.

That's not true, though. In Doomed Willow saves Spike from committing suicide but later in the episode he's still cruel to her ("you couldn't even keep dog boy happy") and relishes in hurting her and Xander. In This Years Girl both Giles and Xander regard Spike as a semi-ally but Spike reminds them that "he HATES them all" and threatens to steer Faith in their direction so that he can "watch whilst she kills them." In The I In Team Giles goes to Spike's crypt to "extend his gratitude" for Spike helping him in A New Man and Spike tells him to "stuff his gratitude" and demands to be paid. Giles then proposes that the chip may be part of a larger plan for Spike and offers Spike the opportunity to fight on their side and Spike tells him to piss off and explicitly states that he wants nothing more to do with any of the Scoobies ("now get out!"). As late as Entropy Spike tells Anya that he "can't stand" any of the Scoobies, despite Willow having invited him to Buffy's birthday party in Older and Far Away and being invited to Xander's wedding in Hells Bells.

Spike had ample opportunity to have a better relationship with the Scoobies despite not really deserving one. I mean, Willow's nature compelled her to be sympathetic to Spike in The Initiative despite the fact that he'd just tried to kill her. That tells you everything about their capacity not just for mercy but for kindness even in the most surreal of circumstances. Spike repeatedly rejected the opportunity to join them in Season 4 back when he was first chipped. It's an oversimplification to suggest that had they "treat him nicely" like Joyce and Dawn had that he'd have got along with them.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

As late as Entropy Spike tells Anya that he "can't stand" any of the Scoobies, despite Willow having invited him to Buffy's birthday party in Older and Far Away and being invited to Xander's wedding in Hells Bells.

Was he invited to these events? Didn't he just show up?

 

[Cheese Slices]

That's not true, though. In Doomed Willow saves Spike from committing suicide but later in the episode he's still cruel to her ("you couldn't even keep dog boy happy") and relishes in hurting her and Xander. In This Years Girl both Giles and Xander regard Spike as a semi-ally but Spike reminds them that "he HATES them all" and threatens to steer Faith in their direction so that he can "watch whilst she kills them." In The I In Team Giles goes to Spike's crypt to "extend his gratitude" for Spike helping him in A New Man and Spike tells him to "stuff his gratitude" and demands to be paid. Giles then proposes that the chip may be part of a larger plan for Spike and offers Spike the opportunity to fight on their side and Spike tells him to piss off and explicitly states that he wants nothing more to do with any of the Scoobies ("now get out!"). As late as Entropy Spike tells Anya that he "can't stand" any of the Scoobies, despite Willow having invited him to Buffy's birthday party in Older and Far Away and being invited to Xander's wedding in Hells Bells.

Spike had ample opportunity to have a better relationship with the Scoobies despite not really deserving one. I mean, Willow's nature compelled her to be sympathetic to Spike in The Initiative despite the fact that he'd just tried to kill her. That tells you everything about their capacity not just for mercy but for kindness even in the most surreal of circumstances. Spike repeatedly rejected the opportunity to join them in Season 4 back when he was first chipped. It's an oversimplification to suggest that had they "treat him nicely" like Joyce and Dawn had that he'd have got along with them.

I agree and disagree with this. I think it's true if you don't take into account or believe that Spike does change/show a different aspect of himself in S5. All of your examples here come from S4 bar Entropy, and I think in Entropy's case he, like Anya, is resentful that everyone has "turned on him" as soon as he was no longer relevant to the group (after Buffy is brought back for Spike and after Xander leaves her for Anya).
S4 Spike has no reason to want to go against his nature, but S5 Spike does. And accordingly, he is kind not only to Joyce and Dawn, but to Tara, Willow and to a lesser extent Xander as well, and this several times over.
That said I do think that his wanting to stay in the "evil" comfort zone (and because it's his nature) means that he would never fit in completely with the Scoobies. The push and pull dynamics he has with the group is one of the most "tragic" aspects of his character imo.

 

[Btvs fan]

I agree and disagree with this. I think it's true if you don't take into account or believe that Spike does change/show a different aspect of himself in S5. All of your examples here come from S4 bar Entropy, and I think in Entropy's case he, like Anya, is resentful that everyone has "turned on him" as soon as he was no longer relevant to the group (after Buffy is brought back for Spike and after Xander leaves her for Anya).
S4 Spike has no reason to want to go against his nature, but S5 Spike does. And accordingly, he is kind not only to Joyce and Dawn, but to Tara, Willow and to a lesser extent Xander as well, and this several times over.
That said I do think that his wanting to stay in the "evil" comfort zone (and because it's his nature) means that he would never fit in completely with the Scoobies. The push and pull dynamics he has with the group is one of the most "tragic" aspects of his character imo.

Let's not forget he just been accused by Buffy of spying on him which even she admitted she didn't believe but because "the great Xander thinks so, shudder gasp it must be true"

We also know how hurt he was by Xanders insults in Bargaining after he'd be fighting on there side for several months straight.

You also have both Spike and Giles in OMWF "if I want your opinion Spike I'll.. I'll never want your opinion"
And Xanders nasty juvenile "Spike sang a little song"

So to suggest its 1 way as Vamp Mogs does is very unfair

 

[vampmogs]

There's definitely moments in S5 where Spike shows a softer side to some of the Scoobies but then there's also moments where he reminds them, publicly, that he's not interested in them. Like in Family where he reminds them "I don't care what happens" or Spiral where he says he should've instead nicked a porchse big enough for only him, Dawn and Buffy (leaving the Scoobies to perish at the hands of Glory). In Forever he also explicitly tells Xander and Willow that Joyce "was the only one of the lot of you I could stand." I agree with you that Spike feels wronged by the Scoobies in S6 for keeping their resurrection plans a secret and that's justified IMO as it would feel like a betrayal. However, even when he worked alongside them his inherent nature still caused an underlying tension in that alliance as we saw in Bargaining I when he seemed to gain some pleasure in allowing Giles to believe he was leaving him to be strangled to death ("you could've let me in on your plan whilst he throttled me").

Most of my examples were indeed from S4 but it was my intention to demonstrate that when first chipped, Spike was given the opportunity on multiple occasions to assimilate into the gang. However, Spike repeatedly rebuffed those chances and very consistently made it clear he had no interest in being friendly with the Scoobies and rejected their kindness on multiple occasions. That did set a precedent for how their relationship would continue from thereon out. That and having tried to kill them multiple times as well, of course.

So to suggest its 1 way as Vamp Mogs does is very unfair

I suggested no such thing. You claimed that Spike gets along with people who are nice to him. I was proving that, that's an oversimplification and simply not the case.