The Spuffy Appreciation Thread

[Veyron]

Angel's soul was cursed

Err No. Angelus' was cursed - the demon was given his soul back so that he could suffer for all his crimes.. not the other way around.

A quote from one of my previous posts which was ignored by the Bangels:

Since leaving Sunnydale and going to LA how many times has Angel slept with other women?

He slept with Darla on several occasions during S2 and that was before getting to the season's half way point - of course, he was under the influence of some mystical spell/drug - but that's not the point. Buffy slept with the dude in college that used and abused her, Riley and Spike from S4 to S7.

Now, I have to say that I'm currently re-watching Angel (as I only got to S3 when it was first broadcast here in the UK) and I'm just past the midway point of S2 but you have to admit that Angel has had way more sex in that short time than Buffy had in the three remaining seasons of her show.

Spuffy is true love, as Angel has moved on as has Buffy.

And another post I made that again was mostly ignored:

Oh come on Banglers...

Q. Do you REALLY think that if Angel hadn't of had a soul when he met Buffy in the first place he'd of gone to all the trouble to change himself to such a degree to impress her?
A. No way - not as long as people have holes in their backsides - Angelus, and let's not forget that that's who he would have been, not Angel, but Angelus, wouldn't have looked twice at Buffy apart from as lunch.

Q. Do you really think that he'd of undergone trials to get his soul back to please her and to prove to her that he'd changed?
A. Spike - already an evil undead creature without a soul goes and does all of those things to win the heart of the woman he loves and wants to be with did. Angelus wouldn't have even given the idea of going to get his soul back a nanoseconds worth of thought.

Q. Do you really think that Angel would be Angel and not Angelus?
A. Angelus wreaked havoc over more than half of Europe and then started on the rest of the world - nuff said.

Because I don't - Angelus could never love a slayer, he'd of fought to the death with her - he might have won, he might not, but Angelus would never, ever have fallen head over heels in love with a slayer.

Keanoite gave me karma with this reply:

This post proves nothing other than you really like Spike. Your hypothetical questions take nothing away from the actual relationship Bangel has. Spike having done these things doesn't in any way make Buffy care for him more.

Keanoite - that's not an answer - it's the Bangel's way of avoiding the truth.

And my third post on this subject - one which proves beyond a doubt that the Bangels are deluded:

You really are on the run Keanoite after this comment. My hypothetical questions take nothing away from the actual relationship? You know as well as I do that that's no reply - you know that I've hit the stake right on the head and have driven it deep into the heart of your (Bangel's) arguement.

You ALL know that without a soul Angel would be just another murderous vamp and you can't handle it. You guys are beaten, face it.

There's no riposte that you can come back with on this one. Poo-pooing my hypothetical questions is your way of trying, and failing to keep the discussion, war, call it what you want alive - but you've failed.

There can be no more discussion. Buffy and Spike is the REAL relationship in the buffyverse as Angelus and Buffy just wouldn't have gotten along, and as we all know Spike is the only one who earned his soul... Angelus' soul was restored due to a curse, not love.

We Spuffy's rest our case (again) - Whilst Angel was admittedly Buffy's first love (we Spuffy's freely acknowledge that fact), he's not her one and only. Does she have feelings for him? Yes, of course she does; but she's not in love with him anymore.

 

[Kean]

Err No. Angelus' was cursed - the demon was given his soul back so that he could suffer for all his crimes.. not the other way around.

You're quite right...bad choice of words on my part.

A quote from one of my previous posts which was ignored by the Bangels:

Since leaving Sunnydale and going to LA how many times has Angel slept with other women?

He slept with Darla on several occasions during S2 and that was before getting to the season's half way point - of course, he was under the influence of some mystical spell/drug - but that's not the point. Buffy slept with the dude in college that used and abused her, Riley and Spike from S4 to S7.

Now, I have to say that I'm currently re-watching Angel (as I only got to S3 when it was first broadcast here in the UK) and I'm just past the midway point of S2 but you have to admit that Angel has had way more sex in that short time than Buffy had in the three remaining seasons of her show.

Spuffy is true love, as Angel has moved on as has Buffy.

So, how much you are over someone is determined by the number of people you sleep with afterwards? Since when does sex=love? That is a horribly messed up way to view love in general. It is made abundantly clear in both shows that the sexual partners that Buffy and Angel had after they broke up were not true love. They range from (at it's best) deep regard and affection i.e Riley and Nina and (it's worst) utter desperation and regret i.e Spike and Darla.

If you believe that Spuffy is true love that is your choice but just know that nowhere in the show was it ever displayed to be such a relationship. This is a total fan wank.

And another post I made that again was mostly ignored:

Oh come on Banglers...

Q. Do you REALLY think that if Angel hadn't of had a soul when he met Buffy in the first place he'd of gone to all the trouble to change himself to such a degree to impress her?
A. No way - not as long as people have holes in their backsides - Angelus, and let's not forget that that's who he would have been, not Angel, but Angelus, wouldn't have looked twice at Buffy apart from as lunch.

Q. Do you really think that he'd of undergone trials to get his soul back to please her and to prove to her that he'd changed?
A. Spike - already an evil undead creature without a soul goes and does all of those things to win the heart of the woman he loves and wants to be with did. Angelus wouldn't have even given the idea of going to get his soul back a nanoseconds worth of thought.

Q. Do you really think that Angel would be Angel and not Angelus?
A. Angelus wreaked havoc over more than half of Europe and then started on the rest of the world - nuff said.

Because I don't - Angelus could never love a slayer, he'd of fought to the death with her - he might have won, he might not, but Angelus would never, ever have fallen head over heels in love with a slayer.

Keanoite gave me karma with this reply:

This post proves nothing other than you really like Spike. Your hypothetical questions take nothing away from the actual relationship Bangel has. Spike having done these things doesn't in any way make Buffy care for him more.

Keanoite - that's not an answer - it's the Bangel's way of avoiding the truth.

Really? You are asking hypothetical questions that just have nothing to do with the relationship. How you cannot see that is beyond me.

Buffy and Angel still had a relationship, they still fell in love, they still love each other. Your questions don't change that. You are not proving anything!

And my third post on this subject - one which proves beyond a doubt that the Bangels are deluded:

You really are on the run Keanoite after this comment. My hypothetical questions take nothing away from the actual relationship? You know as well as I do that that's no reply - you know that I've hit the stake right on the head and have driven it deep into the heart of your (Bangel's) arguement.

You ALL know that without a soul Angel would be just another murderous vamp and you can't handle it. You guys are beaten, face it.

I'm on the run am I? Once again I repeat...It doesn't matter what could have happened if Angelus had never gotten cursed because he actually did get cursed. He did fall in love with Buffy and she did fall in love with him. They are soulmates and in the last episode of Buffy she did tell him she saw him in her future.

All of the above is straight from the show. It actually happened. It's not a hypothesis.

I answered these questions already, in a post you failed to reply to, as far as I am concerned we are done here.

 

[DarkAvenger]

They are soulmates and in the last episode of Buffy she did tell him she saw him in her future.

In the last episode Buffy told Angel they'd see each other in the future, that doesn't mean she's gonna tell him to get back together. And in the last episode Buffy also told Spike "I love you". If she still had feelings for Angel she'd never tell Spike that she was in love with him. You know it. If Buffy was still in love with Angel she wouldn't have sent him away and given the amulet to spike. But these things happened. Buffy told angel to go away and she gave the amulet to spike because he was HER champion. I know you love Bangel but you have to face the fact that their love is over...

 

[Tranquillity]

Now back to spuffy.....

1. When did you first start shipping Spike and Buffy?

I really loved Something Blue when i saw it for the first time. I thought Spike and Buffy looked really lovely together but knew that it was just fun and fluff. Then i found the relationship with Reilly kind of forced and boring and I started to think "I wish...."

2. Do you think Spike's feelings for Buffy initially developed because of his thing for Slayers? Would the same have happened with Faith or Kendra?

I think it probably did because of the kiss/kill principle. When we first met Spike he wanted to kill Buffy but was also attracted to her though killing her was his motivating force. But then he couldn't kill her, she was tough, she was witty, she was his match in every way so that makes her more interesting, more intreaguing, makes him develop feelings beyond wanting to kill her and taps into the wanting to kiss her side of the equation. I don't think he would have gone through this process with either Kendra or Faith. Kendra, I suspect, he would have been able to kill too easily to make her interesting and her coyness and accent would have annoyed him. Faith and him could probably have had a fling but I don't think he liked her enough to develop feelings for her. If they met pre-soul, i think he just would have killed her.

3. What are your opinions of Spike not telling Buffy he was not dead in season five of Angel? As of season 8, do you think Buffy does or doesn't know Spike is alive? reasons?

I respect his decision not to call/contact Buffy in the early part of season five. I think it is quite plausable that he, as someone who is accused of only doing good because of Buffy, or for ulterior motive, decides to stay away from her in order to see what he can do on his own, see if he really is a 'good guy'. Absolutely no problem with that. I do however find in darn near impossible to believe that he would have gone the whole time and not said anything. Spike tells Andrew that 'he'll take care of it' (meaning telling Buffy) that he is alive and The Girl in Question can be interpreted as that Buffy does know he is alive though its certainly not difinative. I always imagine that after his poetry slam in Not Fade Away he would have damn well picked up the phone and called the girl!! If he's about to die (again) there's no reason not to. But the comic seems to be taking the tac that she does't know, or at least they are spinning us along because the very fact that they didn't make it clear in Season five has allowed the construction of the does she/doesn't she know storyline and it keeps us all on tenderhooks...

4. What do you think Spike and Buffy's inevitable reunion in Season 8 or 9 will be like?

I don't know. I've read so many fanfic versions - some good, some horrible. Many begin with a kiss, swiftly followed by a punch for not telling him. Whatever happens, i hope she's happy to see him.

 

[Lyri]

Spuffy girl here, so I have to stand up and goo 'Woo Spuffy!' but I can't agree with Veyron.

We don't know for sure what would have happened if it had been Angelus who should up in Sunnydale instead of Angel. I mean, in 'School Hard' who would have thought the cocky Cockney vampire would have turned into such a champoin and won the heart of the Slayer. (Buffy did say she loved Spike, you can't argue that.)

And about Angel and all 'teh sex'. I thought Darla's presence was causing him to dream sleeping with her. I didn't think she went all the way with him, as this would have been classed as rape to some people, me included, and we'd be having a whole different discussion right now.

 

[white avenger]

In the last episode Buffy told Angel they'd see each other in the future, that doesn't mean she's gonna tell him to get back together. ..

Personally, I interpreted that as meaning that she wanted him to be best man at her and Spike's wedding, and maybe godfather to all of their kids.

But that's just me.

 

[DarkAvenger]

Keanoite agrees: If it was truly over Buffy would never had promised him anything, she would have let him go.

But she DID let him go... :/

No, in fact she didn't let him go.. she asked him to go !!

 

[Kean]

Keanoite agrees: If it was truly over Buffy would never had promised him anything, she would have let him go.

But she DID let him go... :/

No, in fact she didn't let him go.. she asked him to go !!

Yes she did but if it was truly over would she have said anything, would she have kissed him?

If the writers believed it was over would they originally have written 'You're Welcome' with Buffy as the person who came and put Angel back on the right track? the only reason it didn't happen was because SMG had family issues.

The only relationship that ended in 'Chosen' was Spuffy.

 

[white avenger]

If the writers believed it was over would they originally have written 'You're Welcome' with Buffy as the person who came and put Angel back on the right track? the only reason it didn't happen was because SMG had family issues.

The only relationship that ended in 'Chosen' was Spuffy.

Who's to say that if it had been Buffy instead of Cordy, after setting Angel back on the right track, she wouldn't have dragged Spike, who REALLY wouldn't have been resisting very hard, back to her castle in the Scottish Highlands?

And quite obviously Spuffy didn't end in "Chosen" or we wouldn't still be arguing the point here. (By the way, you just admitted that there IS a Spuffy, even if you thought that it ended at some point. I always knew that you really were a closet Spuffy)

 

[MSchett]

Spuffy never had any real air-time unless your counting s6 which I hated so freaking much... All they got was one lousy conversation and 1 night where they held each other and another open ended night...But I don't see what you guys fight about there both great relationships with people that are terrible for Buffy...


white avenger agrees: It just didn't take Buffy as long to get it right with Spike.

Ummm... It took her quite a bit longer almost an entire season...

 

[Tranquillity]

White Avenger said:

And quite obviously Spuffy didn't end in "Chosen" or we wouldn't still be arguing the point here.

so true!

Looking to the future....(that may or may not happen), Do you think there is a way that both Spike and Angel could be a part of Buffy's life? How would it work?

or Do you think Joss will go for an ultimate ending where buffy ends up canonically with one or the other of the vampires (or someone else?). Do you think Joss could do it without alienating large sectors of the fan community?

In the end, If your ship didn't get the ultimate payoff (or an ending that works for you) would it effect your overall love of the show/universe?

 

[EveryNiteISaveU]

So, since this is the Spuffy thread, I have a Spuffy question...

You know that amazing part in "Touched" when Spike's giving her the speech about why he loves her and understands her for who she really is? And then he says "you're the one, buffy"...she replies "i dont want to be the one" ...what does that mean? She doesnt want to be the slayer or the "one in charge" or does that mean, she doesnt want to be "the one" for Spike????

 

[Airam]

Who's to say that if it had been Buffy instead of Cordy, after setting Angel back on the right track, she wouldn't have dragged Spike, who REALLY wouldn't have been resisting very hard, back to her castle in the Scottish Highlands?

Yeah no kidding! If it had been Buffy instead of Cordy in "You're Welcome" which, banish the thought, that would have been THE most complicated episode ever. I have no clue how they would have executed it. I mean had she shown up she would have found out Spike was alive and NO WAY could the episode become just all about her getting Angel back on the right track. Whether you guys want to admit she was in love with Spike or not she still told him she loved him, he still was "in her heart", he still died for her and all the slayers and the world.... I can't help but think that realistically the focus would have been much more on Spike than on Angel. And we all know that that whole issue would have taken much more than one episode to be resolved, so lets be glad we got Cordy... and hello cause also Cangel=OTP! 😛

And earlier there was a question posed:
What are your opinions of Spike not telling Buffy he was not dead in season five of Angel? As of season 8, do you think Buffy does or doesn't know Spike is alive? reasons?


My opinion on that today and forever will be that the only reason Spike didn't run to Buffy to tell her he was alive is because James Marsters was currently contracted to Angel so Spike couldn't just up and go to Europe and Buffy was over and SMG was unavailable to guest star. But in my mind given all we know of Spike and how Buffy was his world, NO WAY is it realistic that as soon as he was corporealized he wouldn't go to her or at least call and say, "I'm alive, I love you, I'll get to you or you come to me as soon as we can, but right now I'm needed in the good fight here, I really should stick around for a bit and help Angel." He would never just not contact her, its not in character, it doesn't ring true.

 

[EveryNiteISaveU]

Man i just couldnt get enough of Spuffy after that scene! It really didnt satiate their relationship, it just left you wanting more, after that conversation in "Touched".

 

[Perny]

OK... A new Spuffy question. I was wondering:

->If you could write a Spuffy episode how what would it be?


I start:
Buffy would be send back in time, and find herself in London 1880 at night. Confused and scared she would wander about, and finally run into Darla hunting. Darla of course wouldn't know it's Buffy, and ignore her.
Daytime: Buffy's strange outfit seperates her from the other people, and she'd have to steal some clothes. Then she'd run into William. First she wouldn't notice, but then she'd reqocnize him. William, with his big heart, would see her as an inspiration to poetry and invite her home. Buffy would be quite stunned to see "Spike" as a human, but grow fonder of him over the days they would spend together. And then, when she was about to kiss him, Willow would bring Buffy back to her time

 

[Urgent Power]

If you could write a Spuffy episode how what would it be?

I'm always fantasying about Buffy and Spike's wedding. I'm a love's bitch!

 

[Perny]

I'm always fantasying about Buffy and Spike's wedding. I'm a love's bitch!

Nothing wrong with that!

 

[Tranquillity]

Looking to the future....(that may or may not happen), Do you think there is a way that both Spike and Angel could be a part of Buffy's life? How would it work?

I tend to think this is where we are heading. Because shipping/relationships are very small parts of the comic I don't think we'll see any resolution or choice being made. I don't really see B/S/A setting up a threesome situation, as they seem to do in so many fanfic, but I could see both of them playing an important part in her life, coming into the story when required and leaving again at the end, Kissage would probably be involved and I wouldn't protest if she and Spike wanted to take it a little further than that.
While I was writing this answer it just dawned on me that if Buffy only continues in season eight and the promised (shorter) season nine then we probably have very few shipping moments to look forwards to no matter which ship is your preference. That's a bit depressing. I wonder, does that make Buffy/Xander more of a possibility because of the fact that they both live in the same story?

or Do you think Joss will go for an ultimate ending where buffy ends up canonically with one or the other of the vampires (or someone else?). Do you think Joss could do it without alienating large sectors of the fan community?

At the moment I'm thinking she won't make an ultimate choice. Leaving it up in the air is actually better for the continuing popularity of the show/story. I think it was White Avenger, in another thread asked for opinions on the longevity of Buffy's popularity and I would suggest that how it ends would impact on this. If they give us a clear cut choice of A or S then huge sectors of the fandom would be alienated or disenfranchised with the text. Leaving the question open allows all shippers to have hope even when the show has been over for years and encourages continued participation within fan communities and the production of fan products such as fiction, video's graphics etc"¦ and that in turn creates an enduring popularity for the show. However, Joss is also they guy who said that it's not about giving the audience what they want, it's about giving them what they need"¦ so who knows, maybe he will make her choose one way or the other (or someone else?)

In the end, If your ship didn't get the ultimate payoff (or an ending that works for you) would it effect your overall love of the show/universe?

I wish I could say no, but I think it would. I hated the ending of Harry Potter seven, diminished m interest in the series. Hated, hated, Hated that last Twilight book and now I have zero interest in the series, don't think I'll even see the movie when it comes out "“ in both cases it was because the ending was crap. That being said, I don't demand a Happily Ever After ending to be happy, I'm not looking for wedding cake and a white picket fence for Spike and Buffy, so as long as he gives me an ending I can live with I think I could still love the Buffyverse with the enthusiasm I do today.

You know that amazing part in "Touched" when Spike's giving her the speech about why he loves her and understands her for who she really is? And then he says "you're the one, buffy"...she replies "i dont want to be the one" ...what does that mean? She doesnt want to be the slayer or the "one in charge" or does that mean, she doesnt want to be "the one" for Spike

I don't think he means that she doesn't want to be "˜the one' for Spike. I think it means she doesn't want to be the only chosen one, the one to lead all those young women into battle and most likely to their deaths. He tells her he doesn't want to be this athletic and good looking meaning there are some things in life that are inescapable and her sitting there not wanting to be the chosen one doesn't change that and after a night of cuddles she goes, alone, and gets the scythe, does what she couldn't achieve with the whole army, because she is the one.

If you could write a Spuffy episode how what would it be?

I think I would write a crazy story of how Satsu is really Spike under a magic spell. That would be hilarious.

 

[Urgent Power]

Don't you think seeing Buffy and Spike lying in bed together THE most amazing thing ever??

I really like watching those scenes, over and over again, time after time, and I'm all excited and emotional seeing that. I swear, I almost cry with joy, knowing there is such an amazing couple in the world. I don't know how can you not be spuffy after that!

 

[Blackloliita]

Spuffy is like clearly more true love than Bangel. I mean Spike even got feelings for Buffy when he was a vampire yet. While Angel only had actually feelings for Buffy when he had a soul... And I mean Spuffy is also much more passionful and all that 😀... Spuffy is just the best