The Spuffy Appreciation Thread

Well, we're talking about whether or not a bite would (or could) have had the same effect on the couple as the attempted rape. Because there have been other bites on the show, we're comparing them. I think that's valid in a Spuffy thread. I also think the answer is no. Yes, the vampire bite is a metaphor for sex, seduction, and even rape. But I don't think metaphor would have worked here. Metaphor would have given the viewers a bit more of a comfortable distance, but it took the real deal, not the metaphor for it, to drive Spike to seek his soul. And like Airam said, the fact that soulless, "evil," Spike felt such intense remorse and acted on that remorse is HUGE. A bite wasn't right for that moment; attempted rape was.


P.S.: Dude WA.... I gotta go with the majority on the Bangel bite scene. It was totally erotic, at least at first. Of course, it went too far and put Buffy's life in danger. And let's be honest here, that's a part of sex, too. Sex is every bit as life affirming as Anya says it is after The Body, but it also carries with it the risk of death or brutality in the form of disease, complications of pregnancy and childbirth (a risky undertaking, especially in days gone by), or rape (something like 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted at some point in their lives). Sex and death are every bit as connected as are sex and life. That's why the vampire bite metaphor works so well. Every vampire bite, from the Master to Riley's vampire whores to the fanged four flashbacks, was tinged with eroticism. The issue here is that for this Spuffy scene, we needed to drop the comfy metaphor veil and get a glimpse of the real raw, ugly deal.
 
I
itsxpaperdoll
Indeed. This could not be erotic in any way, shape or form.
As horrible as it is to watch it had to be attempted rape. The chip had fooled people into thinking that Spike wasn't a monster that he wasn't evil. The rape scene was to wake people up and show them that Spike was still capable of anything. All the technology in the world couldn't change that. We needed to see him at his absolute worst for his road to redemption to mean anything. Just like with Angel. Seeing him at his best would mean nothing if we hadn't seen where he had come from.
 
Airam
Airam
yep ;
Veyron
Veyron
The rape attempt was born out of frustration not evil. Spike was frustrated because Buffy was blowing hot & cold with him & Spike lost it - many men would. Not saying everyman would attempt to rape the woman in such situations, but it does happen.
palabravampiress said:
P.S.: Dude WA.... I gotta go with the majority on the Bangel bite scene. It was totally erotic, at least at first. Of course, it went too far and put Buffy's life in danger. And let's be honest here, that's a part of sex, too.
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Okay, I will go along with the majority on the eroticism of Angel biting Buffy. I still don't see it, after just finishing watching it again, but if that's what Joss meant for it to be...

So another thought comes to mind. If the bite in question was so sexy, so erotic, so identical metaphorically to sex, if, not just the biter, but also the bitten is so aroused by it, how does Angel manage to hang onto his soul? We've been told throughout the entirety of both series that intimacy of that degree with Buffy makes Angel "perfectly happy," which costs him his soul, so how did he manage to not become Angelus this time?
 
Kean
Kean
Because he had nearly killed the love of his life...
palabravampiress
palabravampiress
I agree with Kean. Also, he was super sick at the time and had just been repeatedly punched in the face. I don't think that's "perfect" happiness.
Comments on this post
Keanoite agrees: Because he had nearly killed the love of his life...


I won't argue with that, but he realized that after the fact. During the process, Angel was pure vampire, fangs, wrinkles, bad breath, and ingrown toenails (what, you mean to say that you never looked at his feet?) Buffy had th slap the crap out of him to get him to bite in the first place. Pure uncontrolled blood lust. If that wouldn't make a vampire happy, what would?
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white avenger said:
Comments on this post
Keanoite agrees: Because he had nearly killed the love of his life...


I won't argue with that, but he realized that after the fact. During the process, Angel was pure vampire, fangs, wrinkles, bad breath, and ingrown toenails (what, you mean to say that you never looked at his feet?) Buffy had th slap the crap out of him to get him to bite in the first place. Pure uncontrolled blood lust. If that wouldn't make a vampire happy, what would?
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Click to expand...

But it's not about what makes the vampire happy...it's
about what makes Angel happy. The reason Angel loses his soul is because he, the person, man whatever you want to call him is content. He has found solace, not the demon.
 
Airam
Airam
have to agree with that 100%
Keanoite said:
But it's not about what makes the vampire happy...it's
about what makes Angel happy. The reason Angel loses his soul is because he, the person, man whatever you want to call him is content. He has found solace, not the demon.
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So, then, what you're saying is that what makes Angel completely happy as a man and Buffy's lover can cause him to lose his soul, but what makes him happy as a vampire and Buffy's attacker (guzzling down all of that Slayer blood with its restorative and aphrodisiac qualities) doesn't, is that it? Something there just doesn't seem right, but, then, that pretty much sums Bangel up for me anyhow.

Spuffy rules and Bangel drools.
 
E
EveryNiteISaveU
i like that youre 61 and say "spuffy rules, bangel drools"
white avenger said:
So, then, what you're saying is that what makes Angel completely happy as a man and Buffy's lover can cause him to lose his soul, but what makes him happy as a vampire and Buffy's attacker (guzzling down all of that Slayer blood with its restorative and aphrodisiac qualities) doesn't, is that it? Something there just doesn't seem right, but, then, that pretty much sums Bangel up for me anyhow.

Spuffy rules and Bangel drools.
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That's exactly what I am saying. It's Angel that loses the soul not the demon, it's kinda the whole point. On top of that Angel is usually repulsed by any overly demon characteristics he displays, especially infront of Buffy. I'm sure he really enjoyed Buffy's blood but did it make him perfectly happy? Of course not.
 
white avenger said:
So, then, what you're saying is that what makes Angel completely happy as a man and Buffy's lover can cause him to lose his soul, but what makes him happy as a vampire and Buffy's attacker (guzzling down all of that Slayer blood with its restorative and aphrodisiac qualities) doesn't, is that it? Something there just doesn't seem right, but, then, that pretty much sums Bangel up for me anyhow.

Spuffy rules and Bangel drools.
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I won't speak for her, but... okay, I am a Spuffy, but I can completely see this point. Angel's curse is about what makes the soul happy. The Gypsies gave him the soul so he would walk around for eternity tormenting himself. Once the soul, which is supposed to be suffering eternal torment, finds true happiness thats when Angelus reemerges. The demon inside Angel WANTS to be let out, so it can't be about what makes it happy or else all Angel would have had to do a century ago was eat that baby Darla offered him and demon happy, demon out like it wants to be.

Hmmm, did that make sense?
 
Airam said:
I won't speak for her, but... okay, I am a Spuffy, but I can completely see this point. Angel's curse is about what makes the soul happy. The Gypsies gave him the soul so he would walk around for eternity tormenting himself. Once the soul, which is supposed to be suffering eternal torment, finds true happiness thats when Angelus reemerges. The demon inside Angel WANTS to be let out, so it can't be about what makes it happy or else all Angel would have had to do a century ago was eat that baby Darla offered him and demon happy, demon out like it wants to be.

Hmmm, did that make sense?
Click to expand...

Exactly! You sure you're not a Bangel????
 
Keanoite said:
That's exactly what I am saying. It's Angel that loses the soul not the demon, it's kinda the whole point. On top of that Angel is usually repulsed by any overly demon characteristics he displays, especially infront of Buffy. I'm sure he really enjoyed Buffy's blood but did it make him perfectly happy? Of course not.
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So, I guess that you could say that it made him IMperfectly happy. Still seems like a double standard...

But, okay, whatever. We can agree to disagree again, I guess...
 
Kean
Kean
We were both doing the off topic thing...don't worry about it :)
white avenger said:
So, I guess that you could say that it made him IMperfectly happy. Still seems like a double standard...

But, okay, whatever.
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WA I know you know the difference within the curse...we have hashed this out so many times. Angel's soul was cursed, the demon doesn't have one. So even if the demon did experience a moment of pure happiness while feeding off of Buffy it wouldn't matter because the demon isn't cursed.

As far as the blood goes well put it to ya this way...I love me some Irish stew, infact it can even make me smile. I especially love my Nana's Irish stew, the finest you'll find in good ol' Eire. But does it make me feel totally content and at peace with who I am as a person and pefectly happy with my life? Not so much...
[br][/br]
Edit:
[br][/br]
We seriously need to get back on topic here...this isn't even remotely related.
 
white avenger
white avenger
Irish stew. I haven't had any good Irish stew since my mom died. But you're right. We're off topic. Sorry.
Back to topic guys 😀

(OMG I can't believe I had to say that... I usually love off topics)
 
Too much Bangel talk in the Spuffy thread! We need a good Spuffy topic!

1. When did you first start shipping Spike and Buffy?
2. Do you think Spike's feelings for Buffy initially developed because of his thing for Slayers? Would the same have happened with Faith or Kendra?
3. What are your opinions of Spike not telling Buffy he was not dead in season five of Angel? As of season 8, do you think Buffy does or doesn't know Spike is alive? reasons?
4. What do you think Spike and Buffy's inevitable reunion in Season 8 or 9 will be like?
 
Tranquillity said:
Too much Bangel talk in the Spuffy thread! We need a good Spuffy topic!

1. When did you first start shipping Spike and Buffy?
2. Do you think Spike's feelings for Buffy initially developed because of his thing for Slayers? Would the same have happened with Faith or Kendra?
3. What are your opinions of Spike not telling Buffy he was not dead in season five of Angel? As of season 8, do you think Buffy does or doesn't know Spike is alive? reasons?
4. What do you think Spike and Buffy's inevitable reunion in Season 8 or 9 will be like?
Click to expand...

1. I don't really remember. Maybe it was "Something Blue" that did it.
2. No. Because from my point of view, Buffy and Spike were meant to be together, meant to fall in love. It's a fate thing, so I don't think it would happen with other Slayers. It didn't happen to the Slayers he killed. Buffy he tried to kill, yet couldn't. Instead he fell in love with her, simply because it's meant to be : king :
3. Buffy doesn't know. And no matter what bangels will say, if Buffy were to know Spike was alive, she would catch the first flight to L.A. I think it was silly of Spike not to tell Buffy, and his reason is dumb.
4. I'm not gonna answer this question fully. I read a lot of fanfics about this, and I play it in my head, and there are so many ways this happens in the fanfics, and I love almost all of them, because this thing is one of the things I really want to happen, also in real life. I do hope though that there would be tears of joy involved.
 
1. When did you first start shipping Spike and Buffy?
2. Do you think Spike's feelings for Buffy initially developed because of his thing for Slayers? Would the same have happened with Faith or Kendra?
3. What are your opinions of Spike not telling Buffy he was not dead in season five of Angel? As of season 8, do you think Buffy does or doesn't know Spike is alive? reasons?
4. What do you think Spike and Buffy's inevitable reunion in Season 8 or 9 will be like?


1) The first time that I saw the show was when I was asked to tape "Once More With Feeling" for a friend. Without having my judgment clouded by either Angel or Riley, the chemistry between Sarah and James was so perfect that nothing else could ever take its place.

2) Spike's feelings for Buffy developed because she is as unique a Slayer as he is a vampire. Both are the best in their own particular endeavor, and it is only natural that they would be drawn to each other just as two poles of a magnet are. Their early competition was based on competition more than hatred or even anger. The longer they knew each other the more their aggressiveness turned to toleration, to trust, (with a side trip into pure lust) to finally real affection and love.

3) I think that not telling Buffy that he had returned is a complete contradiction to his character and his feelings for Buffy. The writers just plain failed to come up with a valid excuse to keep Spike on "Angel" for the entire season.

4) I think that the inevitable reunion will be, at the very least, interesting. Violent, passionate, and interesting.
 
1. I don't know. I was spoiled far in advance, so I knew Spike and Buffy were going to happen and was not surprised by the development of a relationship between them. By Something Blue, I still thought of it as gross and wrong -- which was what made that episode so funny. By season 6, I had fully accepted Spike's love for Buffy as legitimate as well as the fact that they had this new undead connection thing happening, and so I was on board. I think the actual turnaround must have been my favorite Spike episode, Intervention. In that episode, Buffy saw something real in Spike's affection for her and her sister -- and so did I.

2. I actually think there is a decent chance that Spike would have fallen for either Faith or Kendra in time. Spike once told Riley that Buffy needed a little bit of monster in her man. He would know, I guess, because he needs a little bit of monster in his woman, too. One of the things that I like about Spike as a suitor for Buffy is that he doesn't just deal with her dark side, he loves it as much as he loves the rest of her. Faith definitely has a homicidal twist in her and Kendra is pure killing machine. I think that he would eventually have fallen for Faith's tendency to tread the dark side and for Kendra's skill and efficiency.

3. Bad writing.

4. I don't know, but I hope it's funny.
 
1. When did you first start shipping Spike and Buffy?
-From the very first time Spike spots Buffy at the Bronze... He looked so kean on her! Sexual tentions much? Yes... I kinda loved when they had scenes together, and loved the "Halloween" episode when Buffy says "Honey, I'm home"....
And it just went bigger(my Spuffy shipping) in season 4, when Riley asks who would want a girl like Buffy, and they cut to Spike dreaming and mumbling "Slayer".

2. Do you think Spike's feelings for Buffy initially developed because of his thing for Slayers? Would the same have happened with Faith or Kendra?
- No. Spike observed Buffy, like he did with the other slayers. He learned about her faults and what she liked. He studied her, but ended up liking the girl who fought back and had good puns.

3. What are your opinions of Spike not telling Buffy he was not dead in season five of Angel? As of season 8, do you think Buffy does or doesn't know Spike is alive? reasons?
- It's good... Really. She could have been distracted, and Buffy has a lot to look after, and knowing Spike's whereabouts would make her think less of the new slayers

4. What do you think Spike and Buffy's inevitable reunion in Season 8 or 9 will be like?
- Honestly? I doubt it will be kisses and hugs at first(it will come later) and it will be a lot of angry tears from Buffy, and a lot of yelling(crosses fingers).
The way they seperated was intense and horrible. And Buffy will have a lot of feelings bottled up.
 
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