The War has Begun! - Are You Ready to Rumble?

Choose the winning man!

  • Captain Forehead

    Votes: 27 40.3%
  • Captain Peroxide

    Votes: 31 46.3%
  • Neither. I'm indifferent.

    Votes: 9 13.4%

  • Total voters
    67
I noticed that someone mentioned Batsu. Not sure if that counts, since Buffy made it clear that she's not really interested, even though they were intimate twice (I think it was twice). So, if we are counting lovers, and not just actual relationships, maybe we could add Batsu and Puffy (Buffy/Parker) too? Just to see how it shakes things up?

Buffy made it clear that she wasn't really interested after their first night together. But by sharing that second night, she pretty much contradicted her own words. If Satsu hadn't stayed in Japan, there might, and I say MIGHT, have been a third, fourth, or even more, nights to follow. It's not uncommon for normally heterosexual people to enter into a homosexual relationship after long periods of isolation in what was effectively a same sex environment, like a prison or an isolated Scottish castle. Combine that with the fact that Satsu was more than willing, and nature might very well have taken that course.
 
ubi4soft agrees: Maybe RJ also from her Ms Robinson stage

I'm iffy about the RJ thing. The episode left me with the impression that Buffy and RJ almost had sex, while the novelization(of the entire 7th season) clearly states that Dawn walked in on Buffy and RJ in the middle of sex.
 
I'm iffy about the RJ thing. The episode left me with the impression that Buffy and RJ almost had sex, while the novelization(of the entire 7th season) clearly states that Dawn walked in on Buffy and RJ in the middle of sex.

What would stop a completely horny and obsessed slayer? Anyhow, as Eve put it, sex under spell doesn't count..much.
 
Obviously my answer is...

BANGEL!

I don't understand Spuffy love. I mean, I really did feel sorry for Spike, because he loved her so much. But when I look at that relationship, it's just a complete and utter disaster. Buffy totally hated herself, and Spike continued on with the bad relationship regardless that it wasn't a good one.

But! That's not why I'm pro-Bangel. I'm pro-Bangel because their love is forever. The two of them loved each other like nothing else and they've both said so. Angel: In 243 years, I've loved exactly one person. Buffy: I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life.

Those two quotes from them are the reason why I'm Bangel. Because they love each other so much. <3
 
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Eleftheria
[No message]
Obviously my answer is...

BANGEL!

I don't understand Spuffy love. I mean, I really did feel sorry for Spike, because he loved her so much. But when I look at that relationship, it's just a complete and utter disaster. Buffy totally hated herself, and Spike continued on with the bad relationship regardless that it wasn't a good one.
Ugh. All this Spike pity that's always going around irritates me so much. The guy doesn't need anyone's pity. Not even Buffy (who's love he surely deserved) pitied him, but she did feel for him. That's different. The difference between pity and empathy.

Well, not all relationships are perfect. Spuffy's sure wasn't, I'll agree. But in the end, they both had a large hand in making each other better people. Spike supported her and gave her strength, and she in turn inspired him to be a better man.

Also, I think it's important to differentiate between the two different "stages" of their relationship. Yes, their sexual relationship in S6 was violent, dysfunctional, and destructive. Yet, the friendship they built in S7 was something else all together; a real affectionate friendship based on mutual trust, and mutual admiration.

But! That's not why I'm pro-Bangel. I'm pro-Bangel because their love is forever. The two of them loved each other like nothing else and they've both said so. Angel: In 243 years, I've loved exactly one person. Buffy: I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life.
Good textual evidence, but Buffy's last words to a self-sacrificing Spike were "I love you" and her last ever word on the show was "Spike."
 
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Megalita
I love your logic. Totally agree with you on the Spuffy front. I don't think Spike's love for Buffy and vice versa should be discredited because it wasn't
Joan, I was sending you karma and it cut me off! I guess it adds to this topic anyway, so I'll just finish it here:

I don't think Spike's love for Buffy and vice versa should be discredited because it wasn't "healthy." I think I wrote this in a different thread, but I really do think that there are different types of love. Bangel love and Spuffy love -- to me -- are totally different but both are still considered love.
 
Joan, I was sending you karma and it cut me off! I guess it adds to this topic anyway, so I'll just finish it here:

I don't think Spike's love for Buffy and vice versa should be discredited because it wasn't "healthy." I think I wrote this in a different thread, but I really do think that there are different types of love. Bangel love and Spuffy love -- to me -- are totally different but both are still considered love.
I completely agree! Thanks for the karma.

It's so obvious to me based on the way Buffy treated Spike that he loved him. It's beyond me why people think she didn't. And yes, of course Buffy loved Angel. 🙂
 
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BillyidolwannaB
Yeah i agree Buffy loved Spike, like a bro.
I think they are trying to argue that while Buffy loved Spike, she wasn't IN love with him, while she was in love with Angel. I still take it as she loved Spike.
Still a Spuffy.
 
Then what's the difference between love and being in love, with regards to Spike?

I've never really thought about it before, because for some reason I just assumed that there wasn't a difference between the two (concerning Spike and Buffy, anyway.) Usually, when someone says that they love you but aren't in love with you, there's no romantic feelings -- but with Buffy and Spike, there was obviously that. Right?
 
Good textual evidence, but Buffy's last words to a self-sacrificing Spike were "I love you" and her last ever word on the show was "Spike."

I tell my best friend I love her all the time. It never means I am in love with her. You said in another thread a while back that you don't think Buffy is the kind of person who would tell someone she loves them and not mean it and I agree, wholeheartedly. Just as I believe that she is not the type of girl to promise any romantic tomorrows that she gets to Angel if she was in love with Spike. That just isn't Buffy.

And the war rages on...😛😛😛😛😛
 
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Eleftheria
very good point!
^^in s7 there wasn't romantic love, only friend love. Just briefly in s6 was she into him.

Even though, as everybody here knows by now, I am a die hard Bangel supporter, I do believe that, during Season 7, Buffy's feelings for Spike went far beyond any mere friendship, and I believe that we, the entire Bangel community as a whole, should simply accept the fact that a lonely, impressionable girl, basically facing an evil army singlehandedly could, in fact almost certainly WOULD, find herself swept off her feet by someone as charming, witty, brave, loyal, and sophisticated as Spike, someone who fought by her side and always defended her, even when her closest friends betrayed her. Come on, folks, we've used that old, lame, "She only loved him as a friend," excuse long enough. Sure, she loved Angel the most. Only a Blind Cangel would deny that. But that doesn't mean that she couldn't be ALMOST as deeply in love with Spike. Let's finally be mature enough to admit the truth.

After all, what's the difference? She'll always love Angel the most, right?

Day 17. 13 days to go.
 
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Emzzie
"She'll always love Angel the most right?" bahahahahahah :p
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AirwaveRaid
[No message]
I got the feeling watching s7 that Buffy was really not allowing herself to fall 'in' love with Spike, although she liked him alot she couldn't put herself through that again.
 
I've posted this before as my argument against the 'no romance/love in season seven' argument so forgive me if you've seen it before:

Molly May -

I think Molly May shows it really well - there was certainly love and affection between Buffy and Spike that goes well beyond the bounds of platonic friendship. I would suggest that if you don't see it, it's just because you don't want to see it. I don't think she was lying to either Spike or Angel in Chosen - I think that Part of Buffy does think about a future with Angel and I think that a part of Buffy loves Spike in a very romantic, lovey kind of way. Actually, 'Part of' is not what I mean . . . how do I explain it . . . I think that Buffy whole-heartedly wants both and that is her (and our) conundrum yet to be worked out (perhaps never to be worked out). See, my argument for a while now is that Buffy loves them both in much the same way. Joss has said it, the comics have said it, that the two vamps are THE most important men in her life - I think we've got to make of that what we will.
 
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BillyidolwannaB
Exactly! Well said. She Loved them Both as friends :)
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Megalita
[No message]
I think Molly May shows it really well - there was certainly love and affection between Buffy and Spike that goes well beyond the bounds of platonic friendship. I would suggest that if you don't see it, it's just because you don't want to see it. I don't think she was lying to either Spike or Angel in Chosen - I think that Part of Buffy does think about a future with Angel and I think that a part of Buffy loves Spike in a very romantic, lovey kind of way. Actually, 'Part of' is not what I mean . . . how do I explain it . . . I think that Buffy whole-heartedly wants both and that is her (and our) conundrum yet to be worked out (perhaps never to be worked out). See, my argument for a while now is that Buffy loves them both in much the same way. Joss has said it, the comics have said it, that the two vamps are THE most important men in her life - I think we've got to make of that what we will.

In all seriousness, I think you're right about Buffy wanting both men. There is a line at the end of "The Prince Of Tides," where Nolte says something to the effect that he wished that it could be allotted to him to lead two lives, one with his wife and family, whom he loves, and one to remain in New York with Streisand, whom he loves just as strongly, but differently. Buffy is in love with both Angel AND Spike, equally, but differently. Each man holds a unique place in her heart, an equal, however different, place in her life, and she genuinely loves, is IN LOVE WITH, both men. Two small but typical examples of what I'm talking about are the scene at her mother's graveside when Angel says, "I'll be here for as long as you need me," and a year later in Spike's crypt, when he says, "Every night, I save you."

She is in love with both men, and both men are in love with her. Ultimately, both men had to leave her, under relatively similar circumstances: The battle was over,the fight had been won. That moment, in both cases, was the time when the Champion's work had been done, at least temporarily, and they could, however reluctantly, leave.

Frankly, I have no doubt that Buffy could live her life quite happily with either man, could, if possible, have children, grow old, and die, with either man, and only ever have one real regret: that there could not have been allotted to her the power to live two separate lives. One with Angel, and one with Spike. Each totally different, but each in its own way just as happy and fulfilling.

She loves both men, differently, but equally.
 
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Megalita
Agreed fully! This is what I meant to say. You articulated it well.
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
well said :)
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Emzzie
[No message]
I got the feeling watching s7 that Buffy was really not allowing herself to fall 'in' love with Spike, although she liked him alot she couldn't put herself through that again.

I agree. Maybe she could fall in love with him, like totally, but I think she really never wanted that. I think there is only one vampire in her heart 🙂
 
white avenger
white avenger
But the "one in her heart," was the one she happened to be with at any given moment, whether it was the one who she sent away, or the one in whose arms she slept. She loved them both. Equally. Differently. Both.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
wow, i love your new banner.
Not really. It's very possible Buffy doesn't even know Spike is alive, which is a little different to Buffy and Angel not ringing each other and letting each other know where the other one is etc. At least Buffy knows she could phone Angel if she needed to, but Spike hasn't given her the chance to do that with him.

And maybe it is the writer's fault, in the sense that everything is the writer's fault, they make it happen or don't. But that doesn't really affect that the way I see it.

I love you Flannen, but you got to remember that Angel hasn't been sharing Buffy's phone number to Spike, so he couldn't really stay in contact her if there's no way to.
 
Flannen
Flannen
lol, true. I'd not actually thought about the fact she's not in Sunnydale anymore so he couldn't just phone the house! :)
I love you Flannen, but you got to remember that Angel hasn't been sharing Buffy's phone number to Spike, so he couldn't really stay in contact her if there's no way to.

As far as that goes, given the events in "The Girl In Question," Angel doesn't know where Buffy actually is, either, so even if he were willing to share her address/phone number/e-mail address with him, which we all know would never happen, it wouldn't do Spike any good. The only reliable way that either vampire would possibly have for getting in touch with Buffy, or any of the others as far as we know, would be through Giles, and, as we saw in "A Hole In The World," even though Fred's life hung in the balance, Giles refused to so much as forward a message.

Both Angel AND Spike could have been faithfully writing to Buffy every single day, only to have their letters intercepted and destroyed by Giles, "all for Buffy's greater good, of course."
 
Ugh. All this Spike pity that's always going around irritates me so much. The guy doesn't need anyone's pity. Not even Buffy (who's love he surely deserved) pitied him, but she did feel for him. That's different. The difference between pity and empathy.

Well, I'm sorry but I can't help it. lol I'm a huge Spike fan and to see him be in love with her and have a relationship like that just broke my heart. I've said this before had their relationship been healthy then I probably wouldn't dislike Spuffy that much.

Well, not all relationships are perfect. Spuffy's sure wasn't, I'll agree. But in the end, they both had a large hand in making each other better people. Spike supported her and gave her strength, and she in turn inspired him to be a better man.

I know they're not perfect, but I don't see anything good about it. In the end, yes you're right but we saw in S7 that they didn't need a relationship for that. They were very close friends.

Also, I think it's important to differentiate between the two different "stages" of their relationship. Yes, their sexual relationship in S6 was violent, dysfunctional, and destructive. Yet, the friendship they built in S7 was something else all together; a real affectionate friendship based on mutual trust, and mutual admiration.

Yes, and I love that for them. I'm really glad they became so close, I just don't think they're right for each other


Good textual evidence, but Buffy's last words to a self-sacrificing Spike were "I love you" and her last ever word on the show was "Spike."

And, in that same episode she told Angel she still thought about a future with him. And I love you, does not mean I'm in love with you. If she couldn't have a future with Angel before, how is Spike any different? Both are Vampires and both prevent her from having the life she "deserves."

Regardless, I personally believe Buffy did love Spike, but she wasn't in love with him. Watching them grow closer just gave me the feeling they had a bond like no other, but that DOESN'T have to be a romantic relationship.
 
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Eleftheria
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