• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Underrated Spuffy

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
7,615
Location
UK
There's the graveyard scene in Potential when she unconsciously indicates concern for his welfare in the graveyard then tries to talk herself out of an attraction. Then there's the scene in The Killer in Me where she doesn't notice he's on the floor in pain despite him calling her. This is followed by the scene in First Date when she goes to check on him before she checks on Xander (but is flustered by Wood's gaze) then there's the scene you describe when she doesn't care who knows. It shows the gradual change in her feelings for him.
Do you think it's all subconscious on her part? When she stops him from going she can't bring herself to say she needs him or wants him, just that she's 'not ready for you not to be here'.

Yet she can casually say to Willow 'Why do people still think I'm in love with Spike?' . . . when maybe it's the way she acts around him that makes people think she still loves him 😁
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,252
Location
Manchester
@Priceless Her remark to Willow was defensive - she "misunderstood" what Willow had said...which suggests her mind was consciously or unconsciously on Spike and not on Willow. Alternatively, isn't Willow "pairing" socks at the time? It could have been "pairing" or "coupling" that was the catalyst. I suppose it's a variant of parapraxis - or Freudian slip. The unconscious can be triggered by something not obviously associated with the thing itself (for instance - Will wasn't folding his coat, which would have focused her conscious mind). I think Buffy's battling with her unconscious throughout. Things threaten to come to the surface and they get pushed back down for various reasons. They're repressed - the psychic defense mechanisms won't let them through but they appear on the surface in disguised form* - in jokes, in dreams, in language (Freudian slips). The whole of S7 is littered with them.

There's a number of slips throughout but one of the first "slips" I wonder about is when she says to him "I hoped you were a mirage" in Beneath You (and the thing that's hidden beneath all of us is the unconscious). The writers could have used the word "illusion" or any other word synonymous with mirage (it's called a paradigmatic choice). A mirage is an illusion but it's an illusion we want to be real. A dying man in a desert has a mirage of an oasis because he desires it to be true. It's something he hopes for.

The unconscious consists of wishes and fears - which is exactly what Ronnie is in Beneath You. God I'm such an idiot! He's literally the result of a wish, which is itself the result of Nancy's fear. He's underneath the surface. He's in a disguised form and a threat so he's pushed down, fought off or evaded. He eventually appears as himself and he's not dangerous. Spike even makes a castration joke when he sticks his head in the hole.

When she stops him from going she can't bring herself to say she needs him or wants him, just that she's 'not ready for you not to be here'.
Yeah...either she knows and won't admit it or she doesn't quite know but something (her unconscious) is telling her she wants him to stay.* They've deliberately phrased it as a double negative and I think, with double negatives*, each of the "nots" cancels each other out: "I'm not ready for you not to be here". Clever - huh? Double negatives "are generally discouraged in English because they are considered to be poor grammar and they can be confusing". It's not simply the grammar that's confused - it's Buffy as well. It's a deliberate rhetorical flourish that conveys her state of mind. Have I mentioned I like S7? :rolleyes: I'd question myself over mirage (though I could support it in other ways) but not this.

*Actually, the editing, the mise-en-scene and the sound bridge when he walks into the room are also telling us she wants him to stay).🖤
 
Last edited:

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
7,615
Location
UK
TriBel you've made me realise something I hadn't before; Buffy's mind is permanently on Spike throughout Season 7. Everything, for her, comes back to him. She shares everything with him, her main reason for defeating the Turok Han was to get Spike back. It's not that Season 7 is about Spike, it's that Buffy is all about Spike, or at least her unconscious is. The double negative is so clever! It's like a writers in-joke.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,346
Age
48
I keep on saying it - I know fans don't like it but it's an incredibly clever season.

Here - indulge yourself - there's a reason this video's completely bonkers! :p

Some fans don't like it and those that don't are vocal! Beyond that idk what's true it's not as popular as seasons two, three or five probably but we can't be the only people about from Lani who appreciate it.
 

Joan the Vampire Slayer

Carpe Spuffy!
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
5,631
Age
35
Location
WA State
Do you think this is why season seven is under rated though that some people are just set against Spuffy and not want to or just in some cases just can't see past the toxic mess of season six for a variety of reasons, some possibly valid, I certainly think it's a factor.
Firstly, I'm so excited to see a good conversation happening about Spuffy!

I think the general dislike for this season is for a number of reasons. From what I've heard, a lot of fans think it's "boring."

Secondly, I've heard fans complain about the focus on Spike and the Potentials and less on the Scooby Gang as being a factor as well.

I think it goes without saying that if you're a Spike/Spuffy fan, you enjoy S7 a lot more, regardless of plot, because Spike just simply gets more screen time in this season.
 

Cheese Slices

A Bidet of Evil
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
658
Location
France
Secondly, I've heard fans complain about the focus on Spike and the Potentials and less on the Scooby Gang as being a factor as well.
You know, and I totally get that people strongly disagree with this, but to me it works very well given that the show is Buffy's Bildungsroman. By S7 she's reached complete adulthood, so it makes sense that we focus on Buffy, the character that's been her "id" from pretty much the beginning (Spike), and the characters that have become her responsibility beyond blood ties. The latter's execution is mostly not great, but thematically I think the season works.
A lot of the Spike stuff is there to reflect and inform on Buffy, and most of the admittedly blah potentials material does too.
We still get some nice scenes between the Core Four, but they integrate this new state of things.
That's not to say S7 doesn't have a lot of problems, but it also has some amazing stuff. And in terms of the alleged too much Spike-ness ? From what I've seen, it's highly polarizing (shocker, I know), with people either thinking that it's the best arc of the season, or wanting to kill it with fire. I've rarely seen fans being meh about it, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,252
Location
Manchester
I liked this moment in "Touched"
I love this scene. I was trying (and failing) to write a paper on Touched and I had this shot (below) on my computer in my office when a workmate walked in. I was writing something about the composition of the shots on the bed. This fascinates me - surely they were directed to hold each other like this?



I'd written a pile of shite about how Buffy's past was evoked by certain things that happen in the scene. That, despite seeming to be alone with Spike, her friends and family were, in one way or another, in the room with them (for instance, Spike's speech draws on speeches by Riley and Angel). It's why I roll my eyes when fans claim the core four are abandoned in S7.

IMO, this whole scene is under-rated. This is what I wrote about Spuffy in this shot. "Here, the arms don’t encircle. They form a loop if a line is drawn from the edge of Spike’s shirt (top right of the screen) along his arm to his hand, which folds around the pulse point in her wrist (confirmation that one of them is living). The line continues along his fingers, looping behind her wrist, over her hand, across her fingers and behind her neck to join his upper arm. It then traverses his arm and goes across an imaginary line to re-join. The moment he leans forward to plant the kiss, he crosses the imaginary line and the circuit is complete. Negative and positive come together. if we follow the line they are both outside it while constituting the very thing they are outside of. It’s the logic of intimate/extimate. At some time – in the space between shots - two have become one. “The chiasm, the cross-over, is the point of both convergence and divergence; it is not a loss of distinction, but a coming together in difference. The subject accordingly is in a mutually constitutive relationship with its objects, intertwined one with the other through touch".

The workmate's a writer and an expert in Victorian women's writing. She's never seen BtVS. She looked at the screen and said "The Sleepers and the one that watcheth." Turns out it's a painting by one of the Pre-Raphaelite school. (Below) This was good because, IMO, other scenes in S7 evoke paintings and the overhead camera used in the scene suggests someone's watching.

I could see the similarity between the hands but wasn't entirely convinced. I asked "Who's the one watching the sleepers? The one intruding into the embrace, into their dreams?" "An Angel" she replied. Yay workmate! Love S7! 😄

 

Cheese Slices

A Bidet of Evil
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
658
Location
France
I'm not sure this is an underrated moment per se, but I'm always surprised at how little the fandom makes of Buffy's "Why does everybody in this house think I'm still in love with Spike ?" in First Date.
That was such a record scratch moment for me. The implications are pretty huge, even though I still think there is too much ambiguity in S6 to come up with a clear cut statement re. Buffy's feelings for Spike.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,346
Age
48
I love this scene. I was trying (and failing) to write a paper on Touched and I had this shot (below) on my computer in my office when a workmate walked in. I was writing something about the composition of the shots on the bed. This fascinates me - surely they were directed to hold each other like this?



I'd written a pile of shite about how Buffy's past was evoked by certain things that happen in the scene. That, despite seeming to be alone with Spike, her friends and family were, in one way or another, in the room with them (for instance, Spike's speech draws on speeches by Riley and Angel). It's why I roll my eyes when fans claim the core four are abandoned in S7.

IMO, this whole scene is under-rated. This is what I wrote about Spuffy in this shot. "Here, the arms don’t encircle. They form a loop if a line is drawn from the edge of Spike’s shirt (top right of the screen) along his arm to his hand, which folds around the pulse point in her wrist (confirmation that one of them is living). The line continues along his fingers, looping behind her wrist, over her hand, across her fingers and behind her neck to join his upper arm. It then traverses his arm and goes across an imaginary line to re-join. The moment he leans forward to plant the kiss, he crosses the imaginary line and the circuit is complete. Negative and positive come together. if we follow the line they are both outside it while constituting the very thing they are outside of. It’s the logic of intimate/extimate. At some time – in the space between shots - two have become one. “The chiasm, the cross-over, is the point of both convergence and divergence; it is not a loss of distinction, but a coming together in difference. The subject accordingly is in a mutually constitutive relationship with its objects, intertwined one with the other through touch".

The workmate's a writer and an expert in Victorian women's writing. She's never seen BtVS. She looked at the screen and said "The Sleepers and the one that watcheth." Turns out it's a painting by one of the Pre-Raphaelite school. (Below) This was good because, IMO, other scenes in S7 evoke paintings and the overhead camera used in the scene suggests someone's watching.

I could see the similarity between the hands but wasn't entirely convinced. I asked "Who's the one watching the sleepers? The one intruding into the embrace, into their dreams?" "An Angel" she replied. Yay workmate! Love S7! 😄

It's funny I'm actually doing an art history module with Open University at the mo and I'll be getting around to doing the Pre Raphaelites in three weeks to a month's time so I might be able to say more then. I always felt with the Whirlwind it's a shame that they never found recognition as mortals and I think Spike would have made a great Ruskinesque sponsor of the people like the Pre Raphaelites.
 
TriBel
TriBel
I'll be honest - I'm not a huge fan of the Brotherhood (I prefer Modernism/Po-Mo). Strangely, I do have a friend who's an expert in Ruskin and a big Spuffy fan. We used to exchange texts on the subject in boring departmental meetings. :)

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
7,615
Location
UK
I'm not sure this is an underrated moment per se, but I'm always surprised at how little the fandom makes of Buffy's "Why does everybody in this house think I'm still in love with Spike ?" in First Date.
That was such a record scratch moment for me. The implications are pretty huge, even though I still think there is too much ambiguity in S6 to come up with a clear cut statement re. Buffy's feelings for Spike.
Oh I don't underrate this at all. I build my whole Buffy loved Spike in S6 theory upon it :) It's a stunning statement of fact, just as Willow is folding pairs of socks (something TriBel pointed out) Buffy loved Spike in the previous season but couldn't allow herself to love a soulless demon. She feels freer to admit it now that Spike has a soul and they are slowly rebuilding their relationship.
 

Bluebird

two by two, hands of blue
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
6,416
Black Thorn
I don't ship Spuffy but my favourite scene of theirs is at the bottom of the stairs (so many stair scenes for this ship - oh the connotations) in End of Days when Spike asks Buffy if she was there too. It's such a sweet and poetic way to ask if they shared the same intimacy that night. The way JM expressed it in a more subtle way than usual sells it for me. They feel very genuine and real in that moment.
 
WillowFromBuffy
WillowFromBuffy
I love that moment.

WillowFromBuffy

To be or not to evil.
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
1,135
Age
32
I don't ship Spuffy but my favourite scene of theirs is at the bottom of the stairs (so many stair scenes for this ship - oh the connotations) in End of Days when Spike asks Buffy if she was there too. It's such a sweet and poetic way to ask if they shared the same intimacy that night. The way JM expressed it in a more subtle way than usual sells it for me. They feel very genuine and real in that moment.
I love that he calls it the best night of his life. It used to be the night he killed the slayer in China and made love to Drusilla atop her remains.

And I love the hopefulness when he asks, "What does that mean?"
 
Bluebird
Bluebird
Same. I also like that they leave it undefined while both feeling the same way. I liked Spuffy in this scene a lot.

Cheese Slices

A Bidet of Evil
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
658
Location
France
I have some more moments !
  • The throw away scene of them playing cards together in a small corner in Older And Far Away
  • Buffy gently cleaning the blood at the corner of his mouth with a cloth in Never Leave Me
  • "Put a little ice on the back of her neck - she likes that" from Normal Again
  • Spike reassuring Buffy re. Dawn when they're looking for her in Blood Ties
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
7,615
Location
UK
Watching What's My Line Pt 2 and just love the fight scene where Buffy and Kendra switch and Spike says 'I'd rather be fighting you anyway,' and Buffy replies 'Mutual'. They just love fighting each other , and then Buffy knocks him out with the incense burner and says 'I'm good'. Not technically Spuffy, but it shows a connection between them, a need to best each other, and Buffy's pride when she beats him.
 

spikenbuffy

"Why can't I stay"
Staff member
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Messages
1,979
Age
26
Location
France
I don't see much people talking about how sweet it is the scene where Buffy (who at the time doesn't know that he has feelings for her) asks Spike to hide Dawn & Joyce at his crypt for protection. Spike was kinda sweet when he calmly agreed. It is sweet moment between Spike & Buffy.
 
S
SpikeRocks
Very true, I like how he switched from teasing, to completely serious and sincere when he looks her in the eye and says "Alright then"

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,346
Age
48
You know, and I totally get that people strongly disagree with this, but to me it works very well given that the show is Buffy's Bildungsroman. By S7 she's reached complete adulthood, so it makes sense that we focus on Buffy, the character that's been her "id" from pretty much the beginning (Spike), and the characters that have become her responsibility beyond blood ties. The latter's execution is mostly not great, but thematically I think the season works.
A lot of the Spike stuff is there to reflect and inform on Buffy, and most of the admittedly blah potentials material does too.
We still get some nice scenes between the Core Four, but they integrate this new state of things.
That's not to say S7 doesn't have a lot of problems, but it also has some amazing stuff. And in terms of the alleged too much Spike-ness ? From what I've seen, it's highly polarizing (shocker, I know), with people either thinking that it's the best arc of the season, or wanting to kill it with fire. I've rarely seen fans being meh about it, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.
I'd say Buffy has three id reps - Spike, Faith and Glory. Faith and Cordelia are shadow selves and Rhonda Wilcox speculates Spike might be too - in a sense that makes sense Cordy is the human shadow, Faith the slayer one and and maybe Spike the demon one. It makes sense that we see the two more ambivalent become more accepted by her in season seven.
 
S

SpikeRocks

Guest
I'd say this in Gone:
SPIKE: Ah-ah-ah....This flapjack's not ready to be flipped.....[his hand travels down...]
BUFFY: What the hell is that supposed to-
Buffy breaks off with a small sigh of pleasure, closing her eyes. Their heads close. She whispers weakly "Stop that..." and gives him that look that says a million things, most of which are very naughty lol (damn good job SMG!)

P.S. Why do some (very anti-spuffy) people think he's shoved his hand down her pants?? Surely, Xander would have noticed that lol 🤣 🤣 At most, he shoves his hand in her pocket later to get his lighter, but this is all just some old fashioned over-the-pant groping/stroking. It actually took me waaaayyy too many rewatches to catch-on that the confused look Spike gets here is because he can feel his lighter (the one she denied knowing about) in her pocket. It's a subtle beat that I appreciate.




I always enjoyed Buffy's teasing/flirting in Older and Far Away (kind of all the spuffy in this ep):
SPIKE: Oh, what, you worried about Richard? You don't wanna make your new boyfriend jealous, huh?
BUFFY: (grinning) Shut up. He's ... sweet.
SPIKE: (teasing) "Oh, shut up, he's sweet."
BUFFY: (teasing/flirting) Maybe he's not the jealous one.....
Spike looks surprised. Buffy moves past him and away.




And always loved Spike catching the sword before it hits Buffy in Spiral.....

 
Last edited by a moderator:
SunnydaleGlitz
SunnydaleGlitz
I love your images! Also love the Spiral moment <3

Serenityrose

Townie
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
72
Age
36
Here are some moments that I think probably don't get mentioned as often as some of the bigger Spuffy moments but that I love.


Crush:
SPIKE: I love you.
BUFFY: Oh my god.
SPIKE: No, look at me! I ... love you. You're all I bloody think about. Dream about. You're in my gut ... my throat ... I'm drowning in you, Summers, I'm drowning in you.


Tough Love:
BUFFY: You think she'd ... no. I told Willow it would be like suicide.
SPIKE: I'd do it. Right person. Person I loved. I'd do it.


Flooded:
BUFFY: Why are you always around when I'm miserable?
SPIKE: 'Cause that's when you're alone, I reckon. I'm not one for crowds myself these days.
BUFFY: Me neither.
SPIKE: That works out nicely then.


Life Serial:
SPIKE: I need a moment with my lady.


All the Way:
SPIKE: Feel like a bit of the rough and tumble?
BUFFY: What?
SPIKE: Me ... you... Patrolling? Hello?


Sleeper:
SPIKE: As daft a notion as "Soulful Spike the Killer" is, it is nothing compared to the idea that another girl could mean anything to me. This chip—they did to me. I couldn't help it. But the soul, I got on my own—for you.
BUFFY: I know.
SPIKE: So, yeah. I go and pass the time... with someone. But that's all it is is time, 'cause—God, help me, Buffy—it's still all about you.


Chosen:
BUFFY: Faith still has my room.
SPIKE: Well, you're not staying here. You can't buy me off with shiny beads and sweet talk. You got Angel breath. I'm not gonna just let you whack me back and forth like a rubber ball. I've got my pride, you know.
BUFFY: I understand.
SPIKE: Clearly you don't, 'cause the whole "having my pride" thing was just a smokescreen.
BUFFY: Oh, thank God.
SPIKE: I don't know what I would have done if you'd have gone up those stairs.


Some others:

Buffy teasing Spike in Something Blue while he's chained to the bath tub.

In Older and Far Away Spike is completely jealous of Richard. He's very petty and makes jibes at him. Also Buffy and Spike playing cards.

Spike and Buffy in First Date talking about Buffy's date with Robin. They both are trying to be okay with the situation as they talk about moving on.

Buffy rushing to check on Spike when he is hurt in First Date.

Spike and Buffy in Potencial as they are giving lessons. Spike's ribs are hurt and Buffy is worried and attempts to check him out.

Buffy saving Spike in Showtime.

Buffy clearly jealous when she sees Spike and Faith together in Dirty Girls.
 
Top Bottom