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Underrated Spuffy

TriBel

Scooby
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All the Way:
SPIKE: Feel like a bit of the rough and tumble?
BUFFY: What?
SPIKE: Me ... you... Patrolling? Hello?
Good choices! The one above - I had a discussion with (I think) @Priceless (apologies Pricey if I'm putting words into your mouth) and I'm sure she thought it was a deliberate double entendre on Spike's part. I'm not so sure - I keep meaning to go back to the episode. What d'you think? I've become less sure since I realised Buffy condones "making out" (which is equally ambivalent). Also - it's a Halloween episode and Halloween licences people to do the opposite of what they normally do (it's a carnivelesque space). Is it deliberate - or is it a Freudian slip (so it's on his mind - even if he doesn't know it - but not something he'd usually come out with)?

In Older and Far Away Spike is completely jealous of Richard.
I think First Date replays O&FA. When Xander's hurt in S6 Buffy is about to go to him but Anya gets there first. In FD she goes to Spike and ignores Xander - and it's Wood who's "jealous".
 

Serenityrose

Townie
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You know I've always wondered about that as well. Looking at the All the Way shooting script it says 'the air is suddenly charged between them'
So I definitely think they're both feeling something. There's an undertone even I think in the line 'go a bit wonky if you cram em too close'

But does Spike's suggestion have a double meaning? I don't know. I think by the way James played it, it could be taken either way. The deliberate way he looked at her and kind of paused between each word 'Me.You..' leaving just that half of beat where maybe even the audience doesn't know what he's referring to.

I think what the scene shows to me the most is that the dynamic has changed between them. In those first few episodes, they shared friendly and/or peaceful moments. Here you introduce that underlining chemistry that's developing I think. Because most importantly whether Spike intended to throw out a double meaning, the fact that Buffy automatically jumped to that conclusion was the point for me. On some level she's feeling the 'charge' and it's changing her interactions with Spike.

Another thing I've thought about is in the next episode OMWF, Spike seems more frustrated by the dynamic with Buffy. The situation is more angsty. It makes me wonder (head canon) just how many more charged moments they had in between those two episodes.
 

AstridDante

Potential
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You know I've always wondered about that as well. Looking at the All the Way shooting script it says 'the air is suddenly charged between them'
So I definitely think they're both feeling something. There's an undertone even I think in the line 'go a bit wonky if you cram em too close'

But does Spike's suggestion have a double meaning? I don't know. I think by the way James played it, it could be taken either way. The deliberate way he looked at her and kind of paused between each word 'Me.You..' leaving just that half of beat where maybe even the audience doesn't know what he's referring to.

I think what the scene shows to me the most is that the dynamic has changed between them. In those first few episodes, they shared friendly and/or peaceful moments. Here you introduce that underlining chemistry that's developing I think. Because most importantly whether Spike intended to throw out a double meaning, the fact that Buffy automatically jumped to that conclusion was the point for me. On some level she's feeling the 'charge' and it's changing her interactions with Spike.

Another thing I've thought about is in the next episode OMWF, Spike seems more frustrated by the dynamic with Buffy. The situation is more angsty. It makes me wonder (head canon) just how many more charged moments they had in between those two episodes.
Exactly even if Spike wasn’t intending any double meaning, the fact Buffy took it up that way shows the shift in their relationship. Similarly when he called the magic shop and mentioned about doing some ‘grunt work’ and Buffy was like no grunting, so funny but again it is her mind that is on one topic
 

spikenbuffy

"Why can't I stay"
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In Smashed, a couple of episodes later, Buffy also misinterpreted his suggestion in their conversation at the phone in the magic box scene :D.
 
Serenityrose
Serenityrose
Up for a little grunt work. And that time i think its clear Spike wasn't attempting to suggest anything sexual. Again its just where Buffy's mind automatically goes. Not just there but the seductive/Willow magic convo with Xander too.

Serenityrose

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Oh also to follow up on jealousy Buffy and Spike have felt jealousy over eachother a few times.

Spike's jealousy was almost always more in your face. Riley, Angel, Ben, Richard.. then more low key with Wood (Spike very eager to rush out and get Buffy from her date)

Buffy was more subtle but it was multiple times for her too.

Hell's Bells shooting script when Dawn tells her about Spike bringing a date:
'Buffy is conflicted. Depressed and disgusted, trying to be apathetic all at the same time

Later Buffy walks by Spike with his arm around the girl and looks at them
'Buffy tries not to let it bother her but it clearly does'


Dirty Girls shooting script
Buffy seeing Spike and Faith together
'Buffy not liking the cozy look of shirtless Spike and Faith'

There was also a cut moment in the script where Buffy attempts to ask Faith about Spike. It's when they're walking and talking about Angel.


Sleeper shooting script:
Buffy confronts Spike and Spike accuses her of being jealous.
'Indeed this seems to strike a nerve with Buffy but she covers'


First Date shooting script.
While clearly you see that Spike is affected by this there is also a moment between Spike and Buffy when you can tell Buffy is affected by the possibility of Spike moving on.

Spike saying he no longer sees a crypt for two with a white picket fence.
'Buffy a bit disappointed'

As they talk about moving on
'They might even realize they're causing eachother pain..But they can't stop'

And then of course Entropy where Buffy sees Spike and Anya together. Willow figures out immediately just by Buffy's reaction that something happened between her and Spike.
 
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
Do you have the descriptions of Spuffy's last kiss as B&S gets disgusted when the spell is broken from Something Blue of the shooting script? I think that it's written that Spuffy have sexual tension.

TriBel

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Messages
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Location
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'go a bit wonky if you cram em too close'
I adore that line! Laugh aloud adore. I think you're right about the significance of Buffy's understanding. I've just looked up "rough and tumble" and got "a situation without rules or organization; a free-for-all" (so neither sexual nor related to fighting in a specific sense). Suggests to me that the writers are making a point. I can kinda fit it in with carnival (or could do if I could remember the little I know about it). I've cut and pasted stuff under the spoiler - it's boring but I can see how it works. The language ambivalence is there all the way through - which I always thought was a dangerous game when "no means no". LOL! These thread is called "under-rated" Spuffy! You can't under-rate Spuffy - it's the most complicated relationship I know!

These are Bakhtin's four categories of the carnival sense of the world:

  1. Familiar and free interaction between people: carnival often brought the unlikeliest of people together and encouraged the interaction and free expression of themselves in unity.
  2. Eccentric behaviour: unacceptable behaviour is welcomed and accepted in carnival, and one's natural behaviour can be revealed without consequences.
  3. Carnivalistic mésalliances: the familiar and free format of carnival allows everything that may normally be separated to reunite — Heaven and Hell, the young and the old, etc.
  4. Profanation: in carnival, the strict rules of piety and respect for official notions of the 'sacred' are stripped of their power — blasphemy, obscenity, debasings, 'bringings down to earth', celebration rather than condemnation of the earthly and body-based.
The primary act of carnival is the mock crowning and subsequent de-crowning of a carnival king. It is a "dualistic ambivalent ritual" that typifies the inside-out world of carnival and the "joyful relativity of all structure and order".[3] The act sanctifies ambivalence toward that which is normally considered absolute, single, monolithic. Carnivalistic symbols always include their opposite within themselves: "Birth is fraught with death, and death with new birth."[4] The crowning implies the de-crowning, and the de-crowning implies a new crowning. It is thus the process of change itself that is celebrated, not that which is changed.

For Bakthin carnivalesque imagery is always dualistic and ambivalent. The carnival unites the two poles of change and crisis, birth and death, old and young, down and up, wisdom and stupidity etc. the dualistic imagery is characteristic of the carnival for their contradiction. Things in the carnival are reversed: cloths are worn upside down, household items serve as weapons and the clown is king.


@Priceless - this is why I watch Lucifer. It doesn't frazzle my brain!
 
Priceless
Priceless
Don't you want your brain to fizz and frazzle now and again

spikenbuffy

"Why can't I stay"
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In School Hard ;


In Smashed :

Spike : I wasn't planning on hurting you. Much.
Buffy : You haven't even come close to hurting me.
Spike : Afraid to give me the chance?
 

AstridDante

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I actually downloaded the shooting scripts a long time ago. I can't even remember which site it was from. I'm assuming Buffy World. Before that I had taken the time to write out some of the more meaningful descriptions about Spuffy.
Me too the shooting script/directions give further insight into what the characters are thinking. So something blue exposed the physical attraction that was already there
 

Serenityrose

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36
Tribel..Thank You!


AstridDante.. It definitely makes a point of saying sexually attracted to eachother. Full disclosure it also says once the spell ends they are disgusted, but I found it interesting that the script literally makes a point of saying they are sexually attracted to eachother. I mean honestly all Willow said was that they should get married, it had nothing to do with them being attracted to one another. It's like how Buffy admits to Riley while she's marrying Spike she doesn't like him. Lol
 

spikenbuffy

"Why can't I stay"
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The last Spuffy scene from Out Of My Mind was longer originally. It's in the shooting script.
 

Serenityrose

Townie
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Out my Mind Shooting Script (full dream sequence)

He pulls her head back roughly thrusting her neck forward and kisses it. She moans softly

Buffy: I want you, Spike

He presses his body against hers running his hands down her back. She moans softly. She claws at his chest scratching him with her nails.

Spike: (overwhelmed) Slayer...

Then she pushes him hard knocking him to the ground, she straddles him, grinding against him. She supports herself on her arms brushing his face with her hair..teasing him.

Spike pulls her arms out from under her so that she falls on his chest, he rolls them over so now he's on top

Spike: Oh Buffy, Buffy I love you, God I love you so much..

Spike bolts up in bed
Next to him lies a sleeping Harmony, Spike's eyes are wide with terror as he realizes he's in love with Buffy. He stares ahead, sick with the knowledge. He moans in utter torment

Spike: God no, please no.



Darn WB censors! Lol
 
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