Well, I've read quite a number of interviews of both JW and AB and they all point to scheduling conflicts re: CWDP. Plus the fact that AB chose not to go back because she doesn't want Tara to go back as "evil." I'm leaning on the possibility that AB didn't know about this grand plan of bringing Tara back (if there ever really was); she probably thought she was just supposed to show her face as The First. We'll probably never know the truth. But I'm thinking if JW really intended for Tara to stick, then AB would have been offered a deal that she wouldn't resist before she decided to move on other things.
What is your biggest complaint about season 7?
- Thread starter PurplePoof
- Start date
Well, I've read quite a number of interviews of both JW and AB and they all point to scheduling conflicts re: CWDP. Plus the fact that AB chose not to go back because she doesn't want Tara to go back as "evil." I'm leaning on the possibility that AB didn't know about this grand plan of bringing Tara back (if there ever really was); she probably thought she was just supposed to show her face as The First. We'll probably never know the truth. But I'm thinking if JW really intended for Tara to stick, then AB would have been offered a deal that she wouldn't resist before she decided to move on other things.
Fusions2
Stark Industries Employee
I always thought the last ending could have been a bit better, the huge fight with all the Potentials and the gang against the Turokhans and Bringers was a bit lame. They sort of built it up and rushed passed it, if the reports were true that Joss turned down a 2 hour special he made a bit of a mistake. If that was me I would have wanted the show go out with a real bang and show what Buffy was really all about.
My issue is that there are all these new people who we don't get to know, love, ect. i mean we know Willow, Xander, Buffy, Anya, and the rest I aven't named. And I think that by pushing them aside and not seeing them that much is because Joss wanted us to get "to know the others" but it still is wierd how we really dont get to know em'.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
The reason that I have read MANY times on BB why Amber Benson didn't return was a scheduling conflict.
She was free for CWDP but not for the last three episodes.
The plan was for The First/Tara to be in CWDP and then in the third to last episode Buffy gets to have a wish The episode is her agonising over what to wish for because of the ramifications (apparently wishing The First would go was a big no no).
Eventually Wllow goes and asks Buffy what she wished for and sees some new shoes.
Willow asks Buffy why she got new shoes and Buffy replies 'These, no I bought them. My wish is there' and points.
The Camera and Willow follow the finger and there stands Tara alive.
This was the plan BUT because of the schedule AB couldn't be in the last and didn't want the fans last Tara experience to be Evil so thats why they brought in Kennedy because they needed a tether for her in the end.
Personally I feel that role could have been filled by Dawn or Xander giving them something to do in the season.
She was free for CWDP but not for the last three episodes.
The plan was for The First/Tara to be in CWDP and then in the third to last episode Buffy gets to have a wish The episode is her agonising over what to wish for because of the ramifications (apparently wishing The First would go was a big no no).
Eventually Wllow goes and asks Buffy what she wished for and sees some new shoes.
Willow asks Buffy why she got new shoes and Buffy replies 'These, no I bought them. My wish is there' and points.
The Camera and Willow follow the finger and there stands Tara alive.
This was the plan BUT because of the schedule AB couldn't be in the last and didn't want the fans last Tara experience to be Evil so thats why they brought in Kennedy because they needed a tether for her in the end.
Personally I feel that role could have been filled by Dawn or Xander giving them something to do in the season.
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
I was about to say this, but... you got to it first, dad. :)
Blayke
Wicca God
OMG!!! Buffy... going on about how if she dies one of her side kicks will be chosen!!
FAR OUT!!
When she died in season 5 did a new slayer emerge??? No...
Faith is the active one!!...
Get over it Buffy your not important anymore...
FAR OUT!!
When she died in season 5 did a new slayer emerge??? No...
Faith is the active one!!...
Get over it Buffy your not important anymore...
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
Well it is fair to say she had a right to think that as the First Evil was putting all its efforts in making sure she was the last to live.
Even with out this, you're blatantly wrong.
Spuffyy
The Slayer
I didn't say it wasn't loving, or that it was wrong, or blablawhateverbla, I just think that there is a fine line between what is "normal" to be on prime-time television shows and what isn't. What my point was, was it seemed like when Joss realized he could get away with putting lesbian affairs into his show he did it, and he kept putting a little more and a little more until it just seemed to be too much. And realistically there are plenty who feel that way about the straight relationships too so it's really a stalemate kinda subject anyway.
I don't have homophobic anything, and if I felt the need to justify myself to you I would go on to talk about and elaborate on all the friends/family members I have and love and don't harbor anything negative against.
I'm not going to have a homosexual debate with anyone, so I'm just going to leave this as it is. I was just replying to the thread with my opinion as was called for, nothing more.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
HAHA! That's great about Dawn...
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Absolutely agreed. It won't let me repulation you anymore right now so I had to say it here. 🙂
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So, why do you think homosexuality is abnormal for primetime TV? Why? Abnormal is kind of a strange word to use. Do you mean uncommon?
We're not trying to gang up on you 🙂 We just don't understand what you're saying.
I agree what the whole Killow thing was overkill. But only in the sense that Kennedy sucks so much. It has nothing to do with them being lesbians....
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
Pardon me Spuffyy, I THINK I get what you are saying - agree or disagree.
Joss tried something in season 4 with the lesbian relationship.
He pushed it and evetually we got the (greatest?) relationship of Willow and Tara.
BUT, as is somewhat typical TV Shows in general, when they have pushed the envelope instead of trying to get to a level that simulates real life, they go as far as they can until its not like real life at all.
During seasons 4 and 5, and what we have of 6, the lesbian relationship is beautiful, its not over played its actually spot on, BUT in season 7, they went a little further.
I actually hate the relationship in season 7 not because its not Tara BUT because thats all Willow is for most of the season, a bereaved, recovering lesbian.
Also, I hate that within 6 months of losing the love of her life she is with another woman, but thats a different story.
When I watch the Buffy/Riley relationship of season 4, I get so annoyed about the level we are shown of their relationship to the extent that we have an entire episode dedicated to them having sex.
Its the same with other TV shows where we get overload of one relationship and kinda devalues it, even making me wish they would stop.
An example of this - The Ross/Rachel will they, won't they.
I actually stopped caring by season 4.
I don't think Spuffyy was being homophobic, just saying that this particluar relationship had tocus, but thats because Willow had nothing else in the season to do.
If she was talking about Xander/Anya would it be heterosexism if she expressed the same opinion?
No, because EVERYONE views that as a normal relationship (man/woman) BUT because some people have issue with homosexual relationships, anyone who speaks out against one must be homophobic.
Joss tried something in season 4 with the lesbian relationship.
He pushed it and evetually we got the (greatest?) relationship of Willow and Tara.
BUT, as is somewhat typical TV Shows in general, when they have pushed the envelope instead of trying to get to a level that simulates real life, they go as far as they can until its not like real life at all.
During seasons 4 and 5, and what we have of 6, the lesbian relationship is beautiful, its not over played its actually spot on, BUT in season 7, they went a little further.
I actually hate the relationship in season 7 not because its not Tara BUT because thats all Willow is for most of the season, a bereaved, recovering lesbian.
Also, I hate that within 6 months of losing the love of her life she is with another woman, but thats a different story.
When I watch the Buffy/Riley relationship of season 4, I get so annoyed about the level we are shown of their relationship to the extent that we have an entire episode dedicated to them having sex.
Its the same with other TV shows where we get overload of one relationship and kinda devalues it, even making me wish they would stop.
An example of this - The Ross/Rachel will they, won't they.
I actually stopped caring by season 4.
I don't think Spuffyy was being homophobic, just saying that this particluar relationship had tocus, but thats because Willow had nothing else in the season to do.
If she was talking about Xander/Anya would it be heterosexism if she expressed the same opinion?
No, because EVERYONE views that as a normal relationship (man/woman) BUT because some people have issue with homosexual relationships, anyone who speaks out against one must be homophobic.
Lindsey McDonald
Spirit Boy
OHHHHH!!! Now I get it. I always heard those two parts completely seperate from one another, so I thought the whole "didn't want the fans last Tara experience to be evil" thing was a really lame reason. It actually makes sense in context with what could have been. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
E
Edmund Blackadder
Its OK, you don't have to be clever, you have your looks...apparently even if you look like a 'Monkee'
Uncle Rory
Potential
So much talk about normal and abnormal and gay relations vs. straight relations. I have heard Joss mention in an interview that the one thing you cannot do on television is kill off a Lesbian character. He learned this the hard way because there was a lot of negative response to the end of season 6.
Someone states (and I won't quote) that they hate Kennedy because Willow jumps into a relationship with her after Tara has only been dead 6 months. Would the same be said about any other 21 year old regardless of orientation? With all due respect, beating it to death doesn't make it more NORMAL. The AGENDA of the program was done beautifully, there were GAY or Lesbian issues addressed in the show that DIDN'T rub it in the face of the straight viewers and therefore probably had the effect of making people more tolerant and accepting. As a 100% straight Ex-hairdresser who consequently has had exposure to the Homosexual culture, I have the opinion that there was nothing so special about TARA and WILLOW. To imply that there was is to say that they were somehow ABNORMAL. They are just 2 people in LOVE. Happens everyday.
Someone states (and I won't quote) that they hate Kennedy because Willow jumps into a relationship with her after Tara has only been dead 6 months. Would the same be said about any other 21 year old regardless of orientation? With all due respect, beating it to death doesn't make it more NORMAL. The AGENDA of the program was done beautifully, there were GAY or Lesbian issues addressed in the show that DIDN'T rub it in the face of the straight viewers and therefore probably had the effect of making people more tolerant and accepting. As a 100% straight Ex-hairdresser who consequently has had exposure to the Homosexual culture, I have the opinion that there was nothing so special about TARA and WILLOW. To imply that there was is to say that they were somehow ABNORMAL. They are just 2 people in LOVE. Happens everyday.
E
Edmund Blackadder
Then wy say 'someone' and pretty muc say word for word what I said except change a couple of words around. Very silly
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
Why won't you quote?
With no due respect at all, simply because I find elements of your comment somewhat derogatory and negative, I said about the relationship that I hate the fact she is with another woman. However if it is me that you are refering to in regards to this, maybe you should quote me because I never said I hate Kennedy for this reason.
If this had been any relationship where the person was so deeply in love that they were willing to end the world and then 6 months later, not only sleep with someone but start a relationship that is meant to mean something (see Chosen) is absurdly wrong. And as someone not only exposed to 'homosexual culture' but lives in it, I find there is something special about the relationship.
Willow and Tara managed to find that absolute in the world, they found that one true person that was their 'soul mate'.
I meet people on a day to day basis, gay or straight in relationships that will probably see them get married BUT while they tick most boxes they don't tick them all - Willow and Tara did that for each other.
I disagree with your 'rub it in the face' comment too. Willow had very little to do in season 7 so they dealt a tiny bit with Tara, a small bit with the Mojo and fell back on the only other thing they had for her - being Gay. The show decided to make that a continuing issue even though we had that in season4 and 5. By season 6 it wasn't that Willow was in a Lesbian relationship it was that she was in a relationship YET in season 7 they played the lesbian card again.
L
Lindsey McDonald
Hear hear. I agree with everything you've just said here.
U
Uncle Rory
I didn't quote because I wasn't necessarily talking about YOUR post. I meant in General.
Airam
great post.
I haven't read the thread but I just wanted to remark on this comment.
I think the show playing the lesbian card again had a few different purposes. Willow herself said to Kennedy that she didn't fall for women per se she fell for a woman, Tara. With Tara gone I think the show needed to reiterate Willow's homosexuality and clearly define her as gay and that she didn't 'want the boys' anymore.
I think it was also a way of trying to appease all those who were angry at Tara's death. The show wanted to prove that they would continue to portray same sex relationships in a responsible, honest and positive way. They wanted to remove any suggestion that BTVS would take the easy way out and suddenly give Willow a boyfriend again and remove the gay factor.
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It depends on the situation. Joss needed to reasure fans that he wasn't going to just undermine Willow and Tara's story by making Willow straight again. Alot of people felt that Tara was killed because she was a lesbian (absolutely ridiculous in my opinion) Joss needed to carry on the positive message he had created with Willow and Tara.
U
Uncle Rory
But is that a good thing or just to appease? Realistic or idealistic?
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
I FLIPPING HATE MY COMPUTER
Twice I have written this.
I don't think this is a valid excuse really.
How many Tara/Willow fans jumped 'ship' and became Kennedy/Willow fans?
How many none Tara/Willow fans became Kennedy/Willow fans?
I would argue not that many.
In the episode 'Him' that was enough to confirm her 'Gay Creds' not create some pointless relationship that pretty much pissed all over Taras.
I'm still convinced that the whole concept wasn't for the purposes of promoting a positive gay relationship either - in fact I am sure a conversation went something like this.
B
Blondie Bear
LOL!
PurplePoof
Surgeon Of Mean
I suppose you're entitled to your opinion, but I have a difficult time understanding your point. You're basically putting it out there that it's only the lesbian relationship you have a problem with, and they were NEVER as raunchy or explicit as the straight relationships, and it never felt, to me, like they were pushing the envelope just for the sake of it.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
I did not say I didn't like Kennedy because she was with Willow either. I just hate Kennedy because she's a self-righteous bossy bitca 🙂
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Good point. It always seemed to me like Joss was holding back with Tillow. I mean, it was a while until they actually admitted to dating, correct? And a while until their first on-screen kiss. And I remember Willow being very nervous about telling Buffy she was now a lesbian.
Homophobia will never end until the day comes that we stop feeling the need to single out these "gay" relationships for discussion....When we view these as normal and average, like any other relationship, only then will the prejudice stop 🙂
Not calling anyone homophobic 🙂 Just a comment.
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Good point. It always seemed to me like Joss was holding back with Tillow. I mean, it was a while until they actually admitted to dating, correct? And a while until their first on-screen kiss. And I remember Willow being very nervous about telling Buffy she was now a lesbian.
Homophobia will never end until the day comes that we stop feeling the need to single out these "gay" relationships for discussion....When we view these as normal and average, like any other relationship, only then will the prejudice stop 🙂
Not calling anyone homophobic 🙂 Just a comment.
PurplePoof
Surgeon Of Mean
Well that's just the thing...I suppose in terms of Killow they didn't hold back and not for very long...but Willow and Kennedy didn't even have a sex scene!
You're right Blondie Bear, I forgot about that...I think it was in Touched where everyone had obnoxious sex simultaneously...but that just makes my point even clearer...it wasn't treated any differently than any of the other relationships.
B
Blondie Bear
Yes, they did. In "Empty Places," I believe. When everyone else except Buffy & Spike are getting it on, too.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
This doesn't mean Joss was holding back, this was actually Joss and co playing it quite accurately.
Willow had only ever been 'straight' up to meeting Tara, she'd never shown any interest in lady bits, sexually, so she was trying to understand what was going on.
In the real world alot people don't tell their closest friends and family straight away. I know guys that have been 'out' on the gay scene for years BUT their parents are none the wiser. One of my closest friends only told his other friends a couple of weeks ago and we've been going to Gay Clubs for years and he's had more 'action' than anyone I know.
As for the first screen kiss, well again, that wasn't to hide the relationship that was Joss trying to show that its not a big deal, that it is normal. Thats why he waited until The Body because there were other things taking precedence.
I appreciate his reasoning, I don't necessarily agree with it OR the length of time.
As for being nervous, how is that anything to do with Joss holding back.
Willow, as alot of people dealing with this, was nervous because she was worrie how her best friend would react. What if Buffy was against it, what if she didn't like it, what if Buffy couldn't accept her?
No, there is nothing wrong with that as it is true to life.