What should the legal voting age be?

[WillowFromBuffy]

That's your choice.

How many of the young voters would you say are doing the pressuring and how many are the ones being pressured? The ones doing the pressuring must be really into politics.

 

[November]

right to opt out

We dont have that right in Australia. All must vote, or face fines, even jail time. But being a secret ballot - many "donkey vote" (purposely vote incorrectly, I think there have been quite a few dick and balls submitted as votes here over the years)

When I was very sick, voting caused incredible stress. I copped so much flack from peers for not attending the voting, social media was full of abuse for those of us who did not have our say in the legal way. I was too sick to tie my shoes or wipe my arse and they wanted me to think critically about the future of the nation?!? The abuse of non voters (specifically online) showed me that I dont really want to live in a society that harbours such hatered for those who do not feel they have the intellectual capacity to vote. I recieved a number of fines that caused great distress as I was already in finacial difficulty. I emailed them to arrange the jail time in leui of payment and was told persons with disability can be exempt. So all the abuse and hatered I copped from peers was just the way the system shaped them. Legally, I was permitted to forgo voting when suffering disability. That just opens another can of worms there - which mental disabilites are permitted and expected to vote? Who determines mental age?

I am with Taake that the voters should be living independently, out from their parents home. I know plenty of mentally ill people that do not find voting stressful because mummy and daddy hold their hand and tell them who to vote for.

Our prime ministers switch faster than a french man changes his undies. Its a joke. I am thankful the foundations were set well for life in the 90's but slowly I see how this is all taking a turn for the worst here. I can only put my faith in God.

 

[Mr Trick]

We dont have that right in Australia. All must vote, or face fines, even jail time. But being a secret ballot - many "donkey vote" (purposely vote incorrectly, I think there have been quite a few dick and balls submitted as votes here over the years)

When I was very sick, voting caused incredible stress. I copped so much flack from peers for not attending the voting, social media was full of abuse for those of us who did not have our say in the legal way. I was too sick to tie my shoes or wipe my arse and they wanted me to think critically about the future of the nation?!? The abuse of non voters (specifically online) showed me that I dont really want to live in a society that harbours such hatered for those who do not feel they have the intellectual capacity to vote. I recieved a number of fines that caused great distress as I was already in finacial difficulty. I emailed them to arrange the jail time in leui of payment and was told persons with disability can be exempt. So all the abuse and hatered I copped from peers was just the way the system shaped them. Legally, I was permitted to forgo voting when suffering disability. That just opens another can of worms there - which mental disabilites are permitted and expected to vote? Who determines mental age?

I am with Taake that the voters should be living independently, out from their parents home. I know plenty of mentally ill people that do not find voting stressful because mummy and daddy hold their hand and tell them who to vote for.

Our prime ministers switch faster than a french man changes his undies. Its a joke. I am thankful the foundations were set well for life in the 90's but slowly I see how this is all taking a turn for the worst here. I can only put my faith in God.

Really? That's scary? Sorry to hear that. Sounds BS to me.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Does it really matter what I say? It won't change your opinion that you know more than I do about it.

Well spotted...

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Does it matter? Let them be able to vote at 16, they have to put up with all the crap, lies and criminal activity that politicians make. What should be corrected is the rules around who can vote and if voting is a must do thing (the only people who benefit from forcing people to vote is the political parties) in Australia the political party gets $2.47 per vote. Any one care to wonder about criminal activity by the politicians as those who are top of the party, running the country get paid to do that job - double dipping that is governed by the politicians themselves.
So have the ability to vote be a choice.
If no one votes the political parties won't get those 10's of millions of dollars from a country that needs to money to put right what the politicians have mucked up.
Vote for them if they deserve it, how many votes would Trump have got if people had the choice to vote or not.
One thing about forcing young people to wait until they are older. Is allowing young people to vote a problem for the President as they are less likely to put up with the blatant lies that Trump makes. That is not omitting the lies that all politicians make.

 

[Mr Trick]

Does it matter? Let them be able to vote at 16, they have to put up with all the crap, lies and criminal activity that politicians make. What should be corrected is the rules around who can vote and if voting is a must do thing (the only people who benefit from forcing people to vote is the political parties) in Australia the political party gets $2.47 per vote. Any one care to wonder about criminal activity by the politicians as those who are top of the party, running the country get paid to do that job - double dipping that is governed by the politicians themselves.
So have the ability to vote be a choice.
If no one votes the political parties won't get those 10's of millions of dollars from a country that needs to money to put right what the politicians have mucked up.
Vote for them if they deserve it, how many votes would Trump have got if people had the choice to vote or not.
One thing about forcing young people to wait until they are older. Is allowing young people to vote a problem for the President as they are less likely to put up with the blatant lies that Trump makes. That is not omitting the lies that all politicians make.

True, but then if I had to guess I think most the people who voted Trump would have been in the upper age range anyway.

 

[thrasherpix]

Ah yes, peer pressure. Wonder what all those signs and stickers are for but for peer pressure? Or the politically motivated propaganda channels that have the audacity to call themselves news, and which so many choose specific ones to tell them that which confirms their biases.

And under the very flawed US system you only got two sides which dilute all problems to an extreme (at least in rhetoric) and you can choose A or B. I'm not going to pretend that's a delicate system intended for higher thought and care which some kids can disrupt.

 

[brinkster130]

18. If 18 is the age we deem someone adult then they should have all adults rights. Why would someone be old enough to go to war, be tried and punished as an adult, pay taxes, and be responsible for themselves legally but not be old enough to vote?

If you want to debate what age someone becomes an adult that's one thing, but limiting what rights people get when seems odd and child like.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

So how old should they be to vote, let those here decide for this site.
No, wait, we need to decide how old them's young uns need to be,
before they can have a vote on how old they need to be before they can vote.

 

[thetopher]

18. 18 is when society deems that you're a young adult rather than a teenager. I've never met a 16 old- even when I was 16- who had any fundamental grasp of politics. Or common sense come to think of it.
On the other hand I've met a few 18 year old who do. 18 is when people- and we're talking in generalities here- start thinking about their future. I think its the best yardstick we have.

I wouldn't be opposed to raising it to 21 though, or maybe ditch the age thing and have people prove that they know what they're voting for with a simple test. That would weed plenty of idiots on the left and the right.

Not participating in voting is becoming a much bigger issue in my country. The answer isn't 'get more young people involved', the answer is for politicians to say 'if the majority of the population don't vote then the default government stays in power'. That might work better in galvanizing those who take a hard won liberty for granted.

 

[Taake]

I do find it interesting though, because this discussion was brought up in Sweden some years back, that it seems to be something people bring out when they're disappointed with the results of a democratic election. Instead of looking why their message failed to appeal to voters, or get them off the couch, political parties (whichever side you're on) seem to find it increasingly alluring to create a new voting block, rather than fight for the voters that are already eligible.

18. If 18 is the age we deem someone adult then they should have all adults rights. Why would someone be old enough to go to war, be tried and punished as an adult, pay taxes, and be responsible for themselves legally but not be old enough to vote?

If you want to debate what age someone becomes an adult that's one thing, but limiting what rights people get when seems odd and child like.

I disagree, but then I think these lines are drawn rather arbitrarily. I don't mind legal voting to start at 18, but if it was shifted to say 21, it would probably be possible to shift other laws to cohere with this. Isn't the legal drinking age in some states 21, while the voting age is 18? Isn't that odd and childlike too?

 

[The Bronze]

I do find it interesting though, because this discussion was brought up in Sweden some years back, that it seems to be something people bring out when they're disappointed with the results of a democratic election.

The idea is being floated in the UK because (generally speaking) the older generation are voting away the benefits that they enjoyed on behalf of future generations. I'm not sure if 16 is old enough personally but the reasoning behind it makes sense. Give the people who are going to be affected a chance to defend themselves.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

How about having the voting age as being 16 to 26, that get rid of a few wallys

 

[Taake]

The idea is being floated in the UK because (generally speaking) the older generation are voting away the benefits that they enjoyed on behalf of future generations. I'm not sure if 16 is old enough personally but the reasoning behind it makes sense. Give the people who are going to be affected a chance to defend themselves.

I did see arguments similar to that floating around after Brexit. I'm not sure I feel convinced by it however, or the benefit of adding 16 year olds to the voters registry.

 

[Mr Trick]

I did see arguments similar to that floating around after Brexit. I'm not sure I feel convinced by it however, or the benefit of adding 16 year olds to the voters registry.

Yeah I'm not sure the Brexit argument is the best one for this. I mean 18 year olds were allowed to vote on that issue which covers a young age group. Many between the ages of 18 to 28? Would have voted on Brexit. In general I think there is a strong case for 16 year olds being allowed the vote. But then I do understand people who say you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

Older folks voted for Brexit, which seems like the biggest idiot vote in the western hemisphere in a very long time. NO country can successfully go it alone, not even a place as big as the USA. Even China and India need allies and each has over a billion people. Markets and politics simply do not lend themselves to that go it alone mentality, something the US is also experimenting with, for some of the same xenophobia and rage that led to Brexit.

The truth: in centuries past, countries tried to amass empires, those that couldn't tried to find allies. You know why that was? Because there is power in large groups of countries/land holdings. The British Empire was once such that 'the sun never set' on it. That is not feasible (or good for the countries that were invaded), but the truth is no tiny country can manage well on its own, no matter what the reactionary old people tell you!! And this is just one awful decision by old people out of fear and xenophobia...

The rest of the world thinks the UK has lost its mind. They've given up most of their power because they didn't want to 'share' or 'give up' full authority. And they've lost all of their world relevance. Together, the EU can make world changing policies, individually, each of their populations are just rounding errors compared to places like China. The UK's land mass is also pretty paltry. Of course, there are overreaching EU policies that meddle needlessly and which needed fixed -- because any big bureaucracy has that tendency. Federal government in the US has the same issue as does the UN. Because big thinks about 'the larger issues' and often lose sight of the ants they're walking on.

But running off will not save the ants.

Instead of running off, maybe an injection of new blood in the EU was what was needed. Now, I just feel sorry for the UK, a tiny matchstick boat on a real, rough ocean.

Anyway, I seriously doubt that if it had been possible for 16 year olds to vote, that brexit would have gone the way it did. Free travel and work across borders matters most to those ENTERING, not leaving the workforce. In all honesty, every age group has its liabilities. Young people lack life experience, and often are poorly informed. But being poorly informed is not the prerogative of young people. Policy is complex and even people who make it often don't fully understand the effects of their actions. In my experience, older people tend to become afraid of change, and if things aren't going well, afraid, ANGRY and resentful.

They ossify into viewpoints that are often no longer relevant or realistic, not even to them, and are easily swayed by people whose agenda is separaration for xenophobic reasons, not common sense.

Frankly, I don't think we older people are any less vulnerable to peer pressure. We buy what our peers buy, and often vote as our facebook 'friends' do. Conformity marks adulthood for most people. It is the young who tend to be open and unafraid to try things. When I was younger, if you'd asked me, I probably would have thought that a voting age of 18 was fine, but as I've aged, oddly enough, I look at my peers and I am unimpressed. We lost our way, IMO. (I live in the US, btw) I am over 50.

Most of my chrono-compatriots are much more concerned with protecting their investments, than thinking about the people who don't have anything to protect yet. I don't think we have anything to lose by letting younger people have a say.

We simply haven't done all that well with our 'age and wisdom'.

 

[Taake]

Older folks voted for Brexit, which seems like the biggest idiot vote in the western hemisphere in a very long time. NO country can successfully go it alone, not even a place as big as the USA.

Lol. But they can get away from the lunacy of Merkel and Macron! That might be enough for some. I was on the side of the Bremainers back when, but these two are starting to make me think the UK might be better off once the dust settles. I also don't think that Brexit means that Europe and the UK won't be allies. The relationship will change certainly, but they won't be going at it alone.

 

[Mr Trick]

Lol. But they can get away from the lunacy of Merkel and Macron! That might be enough for some. I was on the side of the Bremainers back when, but these two are starting to make me think the UK might be better off once the dust settles. I also don't think that Brexit means that Europe and the UK won't be allies. The relationship will change certainly, but they won't be going at it alone.

Think that depends on a lot. At the rate their going they might not even get a deal done. Plus if they end up getting a harder form of Brexit that could do a lot of damage to our links with Europe. I just don't think you can disrupt foundations that have been in place for years and expect things to run smoothly afterwards.

 

[The Bronze]

But they can get away from the lunacy of Merkel and Macron!

Yes this is exactly what happened. We voted to get away from Merkel, Marcon, Barnier, Junker, the EU and on and on it goes. Unfortunately we didn't vote to get to anything. So we're either going to sign up to a deal which keeps us tied up with it all but with no say and worse terms or we'll be crashing out without a deal and watching the economy crash as no one thought planning for it in advance might be useful.

 

[Taake]

Think that depends on a lot. At the rate their going they might not even get a deal done. Plus if they end up getting a harder form of Brexit that could do a lot of damage to our links with Europe. I just don't think you can disrupt foundations that have been in place for years and expect things to run smoothly afterwards.

Of course there'll be a transition period, but both markets are still interested in each other, if we're talking economics. The UK won't be completely isolated in the world. It's all speculation what will happen, but there is no reason to assume that the UK will fall into despair without the EU. Some people want a hard Brexit, some people want a deal, both are speculating as to whatever the benefits of either will be.