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Who Did Buffy Love More?

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
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Black Thorn
Ok to nitpick she used the past tense in Selfless loved, would have and I think it's more a commentary and when it happened Angel was her first love and until his heartbreaking turn it was nothing but a positive as the years go by you have more baggage and so do your fellow travellers it's just how it is.
At that moment in s7, Buffy (a now 20 yr old woman) is conveying to her friends that she will never love anyone (romantically) as she loved Angel. It seems pretty clear that's how she felt at that moment. I don't know how much more clear she could be. Not even one stutter. We can debate whether that changes at the end of the season (my view unsurprisingly is it does not) but... She's pretty strong in her conviction here.
 

thetopher

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Sineya
I thought that was obvious in the final season when she sent Angel to the friendzone and went back to sleep with Spike.
I thought it was because she couldn't risk Angel?
I mean, he gives her a crazy powerful magical amulet and says 'I'll wear this whilst we fight side by side'. Buffy says 'I can't risk you' and turns around and gives the amulet to Spike (after he pretty much demands it), the guy she has been friend-zoning all season.
 

Spanky

Scooby
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Black Thorn
I thought it was because she couldn't risk Angel?
I mean, he gives her a crazy powerful magical amulet and says 'I'll wear this whilst we fight side by side'. Buffy says 'I can't risk you' and turns around and gives the amulet to
That was all just to make him feel better about himself. The same with the whole cookie dough speech. She cares for him of course, which is why she didn't want to hurt his feelings by telling him the truth and getting into a long drawn out argument on the eve of battle.

The cant risk meant cant risk losing him in his fall back position in LA.
 
thetopher
thetopher
m'kay. *nods skeptically*

DayDreamer27

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206
I agree. Past tense. Loved, not loves. That's because he was her first love, etc.
Grasping at straws there. She's saying "loved" because she was talking about their relationship, which is in the past. But then she switched to present tense when she says that love was stronger than anything she "will ever" feel for anything / anyone else.

It's like when she tells Spike "A vampire got me hot. One. But he's gone." Does that mean Angel doesn't, wouldn't, or can't, still get her hot? No. But she's not in a relationship with him & hasn't been for a while. So it's referred to in past tense.

Willow x Tara. When Kennedy is asking her about when she started loving women. The Willow says it WAS one woman. Does that mean she doesn't love Tara now? No. But her relationship with Tara is in the past because she's dead.

So basically anyone who says "loved" doesn't love something anymore? Then that makes a lot of people seem heartless if they say they "loved" a deceased family member (or friend,lover, etc). Apparently, they don't care about them anymore. lol
 
DeadlyDuo
DeadlyDuo
Willow also had to correct herself when she spoke of Tara in the present tense rather than past. Proof she's still not over Tara IMO.

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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I chose romance over family for good reasons. My family were being unfair towards me, and I felt like I could trust my bf more.
@FaithLehane16 Different strokes for different people. Buffy would clearly choose her family over romance.

As for non romance that's easy it's Dawn she died and would have let the world burn to save her - no one else got that neither Angel or Spike.
Buffy also said in Season 7 that if she had to make the same decision again, then she'd let Dawn die.

Whilst I agree that Buffy would save Dawn above all, the two factors that play into this are:

1. She'd choose family over romance
2. Joyce would want her to save Dawn.

The thing here though is that we're talking Buffy saving Dawn in relation to two vampires. Spike and Angel would sacrifice themselves so that Buffy doesn't have to make the hard decision. Even Xander/Willow might be self-sacrificing.

The real question though would be who Buffy saves between Dawn and some innocent (perhaps the same age) who doesn't want to die. It is Dawn there who might be the sacrificial one.
 

Spanky

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Black Thorn
that love was stronger than anything she "will ever" feel for anything / anyone else.
That's just the poetic wankery that writers do. She's a young woman, "ever" could be the next few years.
 
DayDreamer27
DayDreamer27
Whatever makes you happy. We've all been there. lol I'm there now with an OTP in Marvel.

katmobile

Scooby
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Grasping at straws there. She's saying "loved" because she was talking about their relationship, which is in the past. But then she switched to present tense when she says that love was stronger than anything she "will ever" feel for anything / anyone else.

It's like when she tells Spike "A vampire got me hot. One. But he's gone." Does that mean Angel doesn't, wouldn't, or can't, still get her hot? No. But she's not in a relationship with him & hasn't been for a while. So it's referred to in past tense.

Willow x Tara. When Kennedy is asking her about when she started loving women. The Willow says it WAS one woman. Does that mean she doesn't love Tara now? No. But her relationship with Tara is in the past because she's dead.

So basically anyone who says "loved" doesn't love something anymore? Then that makes a lot of people seem heartless if they say they "loved" a deceased family member (or friend,lover, etc). Apparently, they don't care about them anymore. lol
You're using it as proof that she will never love anyone else like that again. 'I loved him so much' if it doesn't mean she no longer loves him which I'll give you that one but it doesn't mean that any love anyone else recieves is a lesser thing.

Also the a vampire got me hot thing proves my point there - Spuffy at that stage had a metric f tonof problems a lack of chemistry or mutual sexual attraction was not one of them.
 

DayDreamer27

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You're using it as proof that she will never love anyone else like that again. 'I loved him so much' if it doesn't mean she no longer loves him which I'll give you that one but it doesn't mean that any love anyone else recieves is a lesser thing.
I think it does show it's not on the same level. So in a way it is less. Not lack of love, but not to the extent of the first / previous.

Getting into children's territory, I recall the Charlotte's Web ending. After she dies, Wilbur takes care of her eggs and when they hatch, all but three babies leave. The narrator says he loved Charlotte's children & grandchildren dearly, but none of them every came close to Charlotte, who was in a league all her own. And I believe that's how it is with Buffy & Angel.

Also the a vampire got me hot thing proves my point there - Spuffy at that stage had a metric f tonof problems a lack of chemistry or mutual sexual attraction was not one of them.
But her "convenient" comment leans more toward my point. Angel she got with because he got her hot. Spike was just the toy she used because she needed a good shag. The equivalent of a dildo. Buffy has often turned to sex whenever she wasn't feeling well. She was lonely & depressed over Angel. Then she completely gave herself over to Parker, who only wanted her for a night. Thankfully, Riley was a more decent rebound guy. lol But I can believe he genuinely got her hot when they slay together, then get busy later. But Spike was someone she'd shown a lot of disrespect & annoyance with for years & it took her suffering PTSD before she hooked up with him. In the comics, she gets lonely & experiments with Satsu. Then at one point, she tried to sleep with Xander, who turned her down because she was only coming to him out of loneliness, not because she genuinely wanted him. He even points out she even went gay for a bit before she came to him.
 

Btvs fan

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It depends, she has a school girl love of Angel but she doesn't know him not really, it's more a fantasy as much as anything whereas she gets with Spike when she knows him warts an all. That feels more real to me
 
Spanky
Spanky
Cool. I'm glad you hardly say it. Thanks for letting me know.

thetopher

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Sineya
Buffy doesn't know anything about Spike. Nor do I believe that she particularly wanted to, it wasn't ever a priority. There was just physicality in S6 and then in S7 she wanted 'Big Bad' Spike back to help fight her war.
On the other hand Buffy always, always wants to know about Angel.
As of S7, to Faith 'You were in Angel's mind!"
 

Spanky

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Black Thorn
As of S7, to Faith 'You were in Angel's mind!"
I always thought that had more to do with Faith than with Angel. I never really got the idea, once Riley entered the picture Buffy saw Angel in the same light.
 
Angel6
Angel6
I think the strength of their bond is still very clear in forever, and I would hardly say in chosen she friend zoned him she immediately sticks her tongue down his throat.

Ceadsearc03

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At that moment in s7, Buffy (a now 20 yr old woman) is conveying to her friends that she will never love anyone (romantically) as she loved Angel. It seems pretty clear that's how she felt at that moment. I don't know how much more clear she could be. Not even one stutter. We can debate whether that changes at the end of the season (my view unsurprisingly is it does not) but... She's pretty strong in her conviction here.
Exactly. Also, she’s using past tense because she’s speaking of a past event (when she killed him.) She then moves on to talk about the present/future when she says “more than I will ever love anyone in this life.”

And I think she was 22 at that point (not nit-picking, just pointing out that years had past and she wasn’t a clueless teenager and still felt that way.) And then in the finale she told Angel she saw her future with him. (I admit the analogy was a little cringe-y but the message was clear, IMO.)

I’m not saying Spuffy didn’t have chemistry but I can’t think of a single thing through the finale that conveyed that she loved Spike the most.
 

The Bronze

Rogue Demon Hunter
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Black Thorn
It always seemed clear to me that she loved Angel more than anyone else. Might have something to do with Sarah preferring that pairing and so you can just see Buffys face light up with Angel.
 
Name the Stars
Name the Stars
I see that to. And love your banner!
Ceadsearc03
Ceadsearc03
Yeah - Sarah & David were both pro-Bangel and very close friends so I think the chemistry just seemed natural.

DayDreamer27

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It always seemed clear to me that she loved Angel more than anyone else. Might have something to do with Sarah preferring that pairing and so you can just see Buffys face light up with Angel.
And there's the instances of SMG genuinely crying when she did the Bangel break-up scene. And it did sound like David whispered to her during IWRY "it's ok Sarah." Idk if that's true, but I certainly can hear that when it's happening.

Sarah prefers Bangel. Whedon prefers Spuffy. And it shows. When he went over to the X-Men comics, he had a hand in ruining Scott & Jean's relationship, who had been a couple for around 30 years of comics just to put him with a snake like Emma who was pretending to be a therapist & seducing him while he was unstable just to spite Jean. Only she fell for him in her plot, then when Jean gets killed the 2 of them make-up over her grave.
 
Ceadsearc03
Ceadsearc03
And even Whedon admits Bangel was the greatest love story he’s ever told 🤷🏻‍♀️

thetopher

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Sineya
I always thought that had more to do with Faith than with Angel.
Oh, I agree totally. But the fact is that Buffy is still (somewhat) jealous of the Angel/Faith connection/understanding because she wants to know how they connect, and what Faith and Angel share/have come to know each other. And that's to do with both parties involved.
 
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Black Thorn
Damn this is a hard one, in the comics I would say probably Spike.
However, if we are just talking about the show I'm not really sure. On one hand there is Angel, who she has a forbidden romance thing going on and she 'loved him more than anyone' as she says in selfless. She also seems to be more relaxed and happy when he is around.
And on the other is Spike, who she has history with and as we know not all of it is good. To some extent I think her kindness to Spike was because he got a soul ( and she knows what that means because of Angel) and because she feels guilty for how she treated Spike, almost like it's an obligation to help him. But this seems to go both ways as Spike is always the one standing up for her in season 7. I believe she genuinely did love Spike but not the same way she did Angel.

I'm not really sure who she loved more but it's clear both the vampires love her more than anything but because their situations are so different it's kind of difficult to tell.
 
Name the Stars
Name the Stars
Very nice and articulate answer
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