Who loved Buffy more: Angel or Spike?

I’m not confortable with the idea of quantify love. I’m a Bangel so I want to say Angel loves her more but in reality I just think Spike and Angel love her in their own way and she loved both of them in different ways. I guess a Bangel could say that Angel give up humanity for her and choose to leave for her own good. And I guess a Spuffy could say that Spike fought for having a soul for her. Both vampires made heroic sacrifices. I have the feeling that to say one love her more Than the others dismiss the importance of what they did to prove that they love her. So I don’t want to choose and I don’t believe there is an acceptable answer to that question.
 
TriBel
TriBel
Totally agree. It's a daft question. :))
Antho said:
I’m not confortable with the idea of quantify love. I’m a Bangel so I want to say Angel loves her more but in reality I just think Spike and Angel love her in their own way and she loved both of them in different ways. I guess a Bangel could say that Angel give up humanity for her and choose to leave for her own good. And I guess a Spuffy could say that Spike fought for having a soul for her. Both vampires made heroic sacrifices. I have the feeling that to say one love her more Than the others dismiss the importance of what they did to prove that they love her. So I don’t want to choose and I don’t believe there is an acceptable answer to that question.
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I like the way you think . I a Spuffy myself but I also say you made a great argument for both sides . So like you said they both loved her but
in different ways & so did Buffy .
 
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Antho
Antho
Thanks :)
TriBel said:
The Earshot remark - I think it's a lie. Not a deliberate lie on Angel's part but a lie nonetheless. In A11 it's clear he loved his sister Kathy (a good girl); it's clear she puts him under a mandate to remember her (to never forget her); it's clear he's repressed the memory because it's too painful. It's clear there's a connection between his love for Kathy and Buffy (and I'm not talking incest). His memories of Kathy return in disguised form (definitely with regard to Buffy and Fred; I'm not sure about Cordy). Earshot - "the range or distance over which one can hear or be heard." Just because we can't hear something doesn't mean it wasn't said. When we talk about "voices from the past" they're not actually real voices...etc.etc. They're usually to do with repressed/suppressed/forgotten or unrecorded history.

ANGEL Kissing her meant nothing. I don't want a bad girl. I've done that before. I've lived a long time Buffy, and I'm past that. I've been with dozens of girls like her. More.
BUFFY Oh this honesty stuff is funnn.
ANGEL I mean, there's no comparison. In two-hundred-forty-three years, I've loved exactly one person.
BUFFY Ohh...it is me right?
ANGEL Next time, just ask.

Look at the above. He doesn't want a bad girl (Kathy's a good girl. Liam's father bars Liam from seeing her in case he corrupts her. He tells Liam his evil side will always come out). Buffy comments on his honesty. He's being honest but not telling the truth (he can't remember). "There's no comparison" - umm...yes there is. Angel evades confirmation when Buffy asks if it's her. I'm not belittling Angel's feelings. Spike and Buffy's feelings are similarly impacted by repression.

In fact, I have a hunch the most "authentic (not really the right word)" love Buffy feels (ie. not based on repression) is her love for Willow, Dawn and Xander. I'd have to think about it. Her love for Joyce is also different.
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Angel and Buffy were a couple and were dating at the time of the conversation in Earshot. I think, and have always thought, he was referring to Buffy when Angel stated: "I mean, there's no comparison. In two hundred forty-three years I have loved exactly one person." There has never been any confirmation that Angel was not referring to Buffy. I doubt Angel was lying even not intending to. when he stated: I mean, there's no comparison. In 243 years I have loved exactly one person." and meant Buffy. Buffy and Angel have been with each other for part of those 243 years. Angel has also told Buffy he loved her especially when he broke up with her. If Angel didn't confirm that to Buffy it was probably because it was unnecessary. If Angel is repressing a memory it could be the memory of killing his sister Kathy after he became a vampire. Besides Angel is supposed to remember everything.

I am getting that you think Angel was referring to his sister Kathy or possibly Darla when he made the above statement. Angel can love his sister, friends, family and other people and that is a different kind of love than you feel for a spouse, significant other (others) or whomever you are with.

I have not nor ever have read the comics so I have no idea what you were referring to at the first of your post.
 
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Ann said:
I have not nor ever have read the comics so I have no idea what you were referring to at the first of your post.
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You need to read the comics (well A11) to make sense of it. You'll hate it - I'm probably the only person in the world who finds it interesting 🙄. I didn't mean that Angel was deliberately lying. To cut a long story short, I think he falls in love with Buffy because she unconsciously reminds him of his sister. (They do a similar thing with Spike. They deliberately cast an actress who resembled an older Buffy to play his mum. I read that somewhere. And Wood is attracted to Buffy because she was a slayer like his mum). He killed his sister and repressed the memory (kinda like PTS). It's quite interesting because his sister tries to give him a crucifix (he refuses it) so she gives him a ring to remember her by. Doesn't Angel give the same gifts to Buffy? The last thing his sister says is "Now that you have this, you want forget me. Not ever". Angel replies, "You can count on that", which is another way of saying "I will remember you". So, in effect, he could be saying these words to either of them. It doesn't take anything away from Bangel but does, I think, tell us something about Angel's state of mind. 🙂
 
Antho
Antho
There is some interesting point of view :)
I suppose that depends on what you define as love,
But I would say Angel.

There is an interesting parrallel between Angel and Spike.
They both represent love and lust, respectively.

Angel represents Iove. He loves her deeply, and it’s a love of deep caring, compassion, and companionship.
This is evidenced by the claddagh ring. The symbolism alone signifies his love for her.
Also add on the fact they can’t be together physically, which helps illustrate that their love is not bound to physical attraction, and goes beyond it to the point they are still in love without being able to act on it.

Spike represents lust. Throughout the show, he offers a “definition of love” (I’m thinking of “Lover’s Walk” and “Seeing Red”)
His definition is actually not one of love, but one of lust. He describes passion, and desire. Obsession. Which, is in fact what he shows when he is “in love” with Buffy. He rejects the definition of deep, compassionate love like Angel, saying “it’s for old marrieds”. (“Seeing Red”, not exact quotation) but see, that’s what Buffy wants. Not this minute, not this month, not this year, but she has expressed that she wants her end to be happily married, with a man she loves, and maybe a kid or two. She’s had a life of abnormality, and she constantly expresses a desire for normalcy. Spike can’t offer her this, nor does he want to.

Angel, however, leaves her (though she assures him he doesn’t have to) and suffers from the separation, because he believes he cannot give her this. He works tirelessly to try and become the man who can give her what she wants and needs.
 
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Neither, I always hate the argument that one loves her more than the other and I absolutely hate the argument that one deserves her more than the other because some see one love as more quantifiable than the other. I truly believe both characters love Buffy with everything they have. They are different characters at different points in their journeys so it’s framed differently.

I will say when it comes to Buffy I’m team cookie dough so I hope at least when it comes to her I have an impartial opinion.
 
I reckon Willow loved Buffy more than any vampire could, sshhh don't tell Dawnie though.
Even though Willow and Buffy had a platonic relationship.
 
Ann said:
Angel and Buffy were a couple and were dating at the time of the conversation in Earshot. I think, and have always thought, he was referring to Buffy when Angel stated: "I mean, there's no comparison. In two hundred forty-three years I have loved exactly one person." There has never been any confirmation that Angel was not referring to Buffy. I doubt Angel was lying even not intending to. when he stated: I mean, there's no comparison. In 243 years I have loved exactly one person." and meant Buffy. Buffy and Angel have been with each other for part of those 243 years. Angel has also told Buffy he loved her especially when he broke up with her. If Angel didn't confirm that to Buffy it was probably because it was unnecessary. If Angel is repressing a memory it could be the memory of killing his sister Kathy after he became a vampire. Besides Angel is supposed to remember everything.

I am getting that you think Angel was referring to his sister Kathy or possibly Darla when he made the above statement. Angel can love his sister, friends, family and other people and that is a different kind of love than you feel for a spouse, significant other (others) or whomever you are with.

I have not nor ever have read the comics so I have no idea what you were referring to at the first of your post.
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When he says he has love exactly one person, he is talking about romantic partner love. I think a lot of people would say this but still acknowledge loving family and friends.
 
Antho
Antho
Agreed :)
This is an easy one for me. Angel all the way. He wanted to protect Buffy in every way possible, while Spike was just creepy and obsessed. Even though Angel left in season 3, I feel as though he wouldn't have if Joyce hadn't talked to him about his and Buffy's future.

Another thing is Buffy told him that she lived him, and this was true. But when she told Spike she loved him, they both new that this was a lie. So it is obvious who Buffy loved more.

More evidence that they both loved each other more than Spike is when Faith shot Angel with a poisonous arrow. They weren't together at the time but everyone could tell that they both still loved each other when Buffy was with him while he was in pain. Angel's eyes were only open for a second, but anyone could see when you look closely how he look at her. Pure adoration.

I could go on and on forever, but these are some of my main reasons. Team Bangel for the win! 🙂
 
None of them.
They are both obsessed with her in a extremely unhealthy way.I mean,How can someone possibly think They loved her after watching "The Girl in the question"?

But I enjoyed Spike & Buffy relationship/fling
 
I think Angel loved Buffy a lot.

In my opinion though? Spike. He turned his entire personality/methodology around (whilst without a soul), cared for her and her friends (whilst without a soul), and went so far as to get his own soul back for her (whilst also without a soul 😉 ). The man gave up everything he had been and had known for centuries just to be with her. Once he had a soul, his passion for her never wavered or lessened either. That right there is a love story for you ❤️
 
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