Feminist reboot of Charmed
- Thread starter Skanky Vamp
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thetopher
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Besides, with relatives of the Halliwell sisters they'd have to abide by the Charmed 'show bible' that was used...
Skanky Vamp
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ChaseRules
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Anyanka Bunny Slayer
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ILLYRIAN
Druish Pervonian Wizard
Why do you folks seem to be saying it has to be a Halliwell Sisters reboot?
If you want to, the first episode could start with an evil entity going back in time and murdering that Melinda Warren witch.
So the new witches could three fresh faced girls in a college town. (courtesy of Taake )
Please though don't pretend they are Wiccan and not from that wiccan group that Willow dumped although if they did
they could do a reboot of Buffy at the same time, that could be fun!
If you want to, the first episode could start with an evil entity going back in time and murdering that Melinda Warren witch.
So the new witches could three fresh faced girls in a college town. (courtesy of Taake )
Please though don't pretend they are Wiccan and not from that wiccan group that Willow dumped although if they did
they could do a reboot of Buffy at the same time, that could be fun!
ChaseRules
Good Idea .
The Bronze
Rogue Demon Hunter
Well Charmed is the sort of thing where a reboot might make sense. The idea seems decent enough, there's plenty of flexibility for stories and the original was awful so you've got a low bar to get over.
However this introduction is horrible:
However this introduction is horrible:
Making such a big deal out of feminism and smashing the patriarchy in just one paragraph screams that this will be horrible on the nose preaching with entertainment as an after thought.
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
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thrasherpix
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Yeah, and misogyny will be wrongly blamed as political zealots see everything warped through their ideological lens and assume everything is measured by ideology. If the description is accurate then I may find it unintentionally hilarious, but expect it to flop fast because the characters and stories will have the appeal of gruel, in addition to the annoying preaching.
OTOH, this could be creative marketing. Bringing up feminism, especially in such a context, is like mentioning "gun control." Word will spread like fire and even many who would hate it will watch it just to take it apart in videos, which will cause an equally knee jerk reaction of getting others to like it because say "red pill males" (among others) don't. That's free advertisement, and controversy has long done more good than harm to new movies and shows, and outrage gets people talking and sharing like nothing else, thus drawing people in more than any other emotion. So this could be brilliant and cynical manipulation of us all to get people buzzing and preparing to watch even if only as a political statement (for or against). Advertising space sells all the same so they make their money. Google (whose biz is advertisement) has long exploited outrage to draw in viewers (and thus sell ad space) by infuriating people (through others, of course).
But it could also be yet another bait and switch, promising one show and giving another that has nothing to do with smashing the Patriarchy nor have anything to do with the original show beyond the paint job they gave their generic story knowing this will attract more viewers than if they tried to promote something original (though riddled with the usual tropes and generic story lines, but given a few names, places, and references to make it look like it's part of a more familiar and thus appealing show or series to make it look like something familiar, tap nostalgia factor, etc). People will have such low expectations (those with high expectations because it's about "smashing the patriarchy" will be such a small minority that the network and advertisers won't care about losing them) that their barely passable story then seems much better than it is simply because everyone was expecting so much worse.
Virtually all TV and movies is about advertisement and consumerism, especially in the USA. Of course they've learned to expertly push our buttons to make it work for them. They've been doing it for years and it keeps working. And they're not the only ones.
Skanky Vamp
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Well, they are also rebooting The Greatest American Hero and gender switching that from a male to a female so that it too can talk about feminism and women empowerment. Plus she's not just a woman, she's a POC woman! So that's two boxes ticked right there. One can only hope she's bi so it's the trifecta.
MarieVampSlayer
Tv shows are so obvious in their boxes aren't they!
I think calling it a reboot/remake is ridiculous as it has nothing in common with the original series except that the focus is on three female witches. It basically seems like the network is trying to draw in viewers by counting on people's nostalgia for the original series but the problem with this is that they've actually alienated that particular fanbase due to not linking the new series to the old in any way.
As for whether Charmed was a 'feminist' show and whether the reboot needs to improve upon that/will do 'feminism' justice ... I think that all comes down to what feminism is these days, what people view it as and the harsh way in which Charmed is viewed in general.
What counts as 'feminist' media these days is vastly different to what counted as 'feminist' media in the 90s. Whereas 'feminist' media used to focus on whether the female leads were autonomous, had pursuits and goals outside of romance, the strength of the female characters within the show (not just physical strength although that used to count for something too), the agency of the female characters, whether it had strong female relationships and how female-focused and female-driven the show was, these days for a show to be considered 'feminist' it seems that it must tick a myriad of boxes, including having characters of colour, lgbt characters and (this is a new one) trans or non-binary characters ... none of which are particularly 'feminist' issues. Social Justice issues, sure. But not what I would class as 'feminist' issues.
Honestly, I'm kind of at the end of my rope with feminists and feminism these days. Between the perpetual victimhood and victim mentality, the rampant misandry and the disrespect shown to anyone who dares to voice any kind of concerns about feminism, it's getting tiring. Feminist standards seem impossible to reach these days and this applies to media too, which is probably why so many people look down on Charmed and label it anti-feminist and why this new reboot is trying to capitalize on the feminist/social justice craze. But let's talk about the original series for a minute.
Without using today's yardstick for feminism, let's have a look at how Charmed deals with its characters and whether it ticks the original boxes for 'feminist media'.
For starters, Charmed is incredibly female-focused. It's one of the few shows I would describe as 'female-driven' given that its four leads are all females, much of its supporting characters are female, the Halliwell line is a Matriarchy and not a single female lead is ever sidelined for a male character. Despite what people claim/think, for the first four seasons of the show the sisters are all autonomous characters who never lose their agency, are presented as fully-realised and developed characters, each with their own dreams and goals, none of which are mocked or belittled. Yes, some of the sisters desire love and romance but despite the ridiculous claims of all they ever do is talk about men/chase men or whatever was said earlier in this thread, finding love is not actually a focal point in any of the sisters' lives in the initial seasons.
Prue spends the majority of her tenure single, the only serious relationship she has is with Andy in the first season and while she talks about motherhood and romance, it's never presented as a driving force in her life and her career and work is often given strong focus, especially with her career change halfway through Season 2. Piper, easily the most romantic of the sisters, also spends most of Season 1 single, and while the love triangle between her, Dan and Leo does take focus in Season 2, it's no worse nor focused on any more than, say, Buffy's Season 2 Angelus storyline (and no one is claiming that storyline detracts from the feminism of BtVS). Phoebe is actually single for the first two seasons of the show and is often shown to focus more on her life and goals, finding herself again and going back to College. Her relationship with Cole takes up much of Seasons 3 and 4, but it's woven into the story, written as a natural progression of her personal journey and unlike certain other ships which shall remained unnamed, the show actually ends up acknowledging the detrimental effect Cole had on Phoebe, forces her to confront her own personal demons, allows her to extract herself from Cole and eventually move on.
Charmed allows for the girls to grow and develop as individual characters, always allowing them agency and power. Never do we see the girls victimized, there is not one iota of sexual violence in show (which is really amazing when you think about it, as so often female strength is defined by how much suffering she can take) and never are the girls put through trauma or pain in order to further anyone else's storyline or arc. Even the Phoebe/Cole storyline is focused on Phoebe and her role within it and Cole is not handed some half-assed redemption built on her pain.
There is also a very strong focus on female relationships on the show, especially in the first four seasons. For those first four seasons the relationship that is always front-and-center is that between the sisters. We watch them grow closer when Phoebe returns, splinter when Prue dies and re-form with the introduction of Paige. The show gives tremendous focus to this relationship in those first four seasons and it's rare to see such strong bonds and such focus on relationships between women in television, even today.
I personally find the first four seasons of Charmed to be very female-focused and 'feminist' and I think that it's a better show than a lot of people give it credit for. After Season 4 Constance M Burgess left the show and Brad Kern officially took over and this is (very tellingly) the point where the series changed and became less about the sisters and their bonds, their ambitions and their characters and became about skimpy outfits and ridiculous soap-opera plots which did, unfortunately, focus a lot on the women pursuing men and romance. But the original series was created by women for women and I think that it presents the girls in an amazing way, as fully developed characters, driven by individual goals and desires, never held back by romance but still showing a desire for it without it detracting from their arcs or characters. Is it the most cohesive, intelligent or well thought-out show? Not really. But the first four seasons are better than people give them credit for, the characters are great and the show has real heart. And yes, I believe that the first four seasons were 'empowering' and that they did their female characters right. It wasn't until a man took over the show that it all went to hell.
A reboot is superfluous and ridiculous and given that it has literally nothing to do with the original series, I wish they would name it something else and leave Charmed and the fandom in peace.
As for whether Charmed was a 'feminist' show and whether the reboot needs to improve upon that/will do 'feminism' justice ... I think that all comes down to what feminism is these days, what people view it as and the harsh way in which Charmed is viewed in general.
What counts as 'feminist' media these days is vastly different to what counted as 'feminist' media in the 90s. Whereas 'feminist' media used to focus on whether the female leads were autonomous, had pursuits and goals outside of romance, the strength of the female characters within the show (not just physical strength although that used to count for something too), the agency of the female characters, whether it had strong female relationships and how female-focused and female-driven the show was, these days for a show to be considered 'feminist' it seems that it must tick a myriad of boxes, including having characters of colour, lgbt characters and (this is a new one) trans or non-binary characters ... none of which are particularly 'feminist' issues. Social Justice issues, sure. But not what I would class as 'feminist' issues.
Honestly, I'm kind of at the end of my rope with feminists and feminism these days. Between the perpetual victimhood and victim mentality, the rampant misandry and the disrespect shown to anyone who dares to voice any kind of concerns about feminism, it's getting tiring. Feminist standards seem impossible to reach these days and this applies to media too, which is probably why so many people look down on Charmed and label it anti-feminist and why this new reboot is trying to capitalize on the feminist/social justice craze. But let's talk about the original series for a minute.
Without using today's yardstick for feminism, let's have a look at how Charmed deals with its characters and whether it ticks the original boxes for 'feminist media'.
For starters, Charmed is incredibly female-focused. It's one of the few shows I would describe as 'female-driven' given that its four leads are all females, much of its supporting characters are female, the Halliwell line is a Matriarchy and not a single female lead is ever sidelined for a male character. Despite what people claim/think, for the first four seasons of the show the sisters are all autonomous characters who never lose their agency, are presented as fully-realised and developed characters, each with their own dreams and goals, none of which are mocked or belittled. Yes, some of the sisters desire love and romance but despite the ridiculous claims of all they ever do is talk about men/chase men or whatever was said earlier in this thread, finding love is not actually a focal point in any of the sisters' lives in the initial seasons.
Prue spends the majority of her tenure single, the only serious relationship she has is with Andy in the first season and while she talks about motherhood and romance, it's never presented as a driving force in her life and her career and work is often given strong focus, especially with her career change halfway through Season 2. Piper, easily the most romantic of the sisters, also spends most of Season 1 single, and while the love triangle between her, Dan and Leo does take focus in Season 2, it's no worse nor focused on any more than, say, Buffy's Season 2 Angelus storyline (and no one is claiming that storyline detracts from the feminism of BtVS). Phoebe is actually single for the first two seasons of the show and is often shown to focus more on her life and goals, finding herself again and going back to College. Her relationship with Cole takes up much of Seasons 3 and 4, but it's woven into the story, written as a natural progression of her personal journey and unlike certain other ships which shall remained unnamed, the show actually ends up acknowledging the detrimental effect Cole had on Phoebe, forces her to confront her own personal demons, allows her to extract herself from Cole and eventually move on.
Charmed allows for the girls to grow and develop as individual characters, always allowing them agency and power. Never do we see the girls victimized, there is not one iota of sexual violence in show (which is really amazing when you think about it, as so often female strength is defined by how much suffering she can take) and never are the girls put through trauma or pain in order to further anyone else's storyline or arc. Even the Phoebe/Cole storyline is focused on Phoebe and her role within it and Cole is not handed some half-assed redemption built on her pain.
There is also a very strong focus on female relationships on the show, especially in the first four seasons. For those first four seasons the relationship that is always front-and-center is that between the sisters. We watch them grow closer when Phoebe returns, splinter when Prue dies and re-form with the introduction of Paige. The show gives tremendous focus to this relationship in those first four seasons and it's rare to see such strong bonds and such focus on relationships between women in television, even today.
I personally find the first four seasons of Charmed to be very female-focused and 'feminist' and I think that it's a better show than a lot of people give it credit for. After Season 4 Constance M Burgess left the show and Brad Kern officially took over and this is (very tellingly) the point where the series changed and became less about the sisters and their bonds, their ambitions and their characters and became about skimpy outfits and ridiculous soap-opera plots which did, unfortunately, focus a lot on the women pursuing men and romance. But the original series was created by women for women and I think that it presents the girls in an amazing way, as fully developed characters, driven by individual goals and desires, never held back by romance but still showing a desire for it without it detracting from their arcs or characters. Is it the most cohesive, intelligent or well thought-out show? Not really. But the first four seasons are better than people give them credit for, the characters are great and the show has real heart. And yes, I believe that the first four seasons were 'empowering' and that they did their female characters right. It wasn't until a man took over the show that it all went to hell.
A reboot is superfluous and ridiculous and given that it has literally nothing to do with the original series, I wish they would name it something else and leave Charmed and the fandom in peace.
thetopher
Great post.
MarieVampSlayer
Totally agree!
ChaseRules
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I have to agree with you on that . The first few seasons of Charmed were great & I liked it . I didn't watch all of it since toward the end it wasn't that good for me . But I liked it & I a bit worried over the fact that they seem to be using just the name & not much else to get people to watch it .
Wonder who they get to play in the Show. Will see if they get some good actress to play the roles.
Wonder who they get to play in the Show. Will see if they get some good actress to play the roles.
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
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ILLYRIAN
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a snake, said he and he winked to her as he licked the bead of sweat from his big toe.
Couldn't disagree more, so I don't think my claims are ridiculous. Of course they're single a lot, that's why they're constantly going on dates and looking for love. Which in itself isn't wrong, but whenever I watch it, to me it is the clear center of the stories and the focal point of the characters (exception being Prue). Which is why Phoebe goes through love interests like they're chocolate bars. Also, the show doesn't acknowledge the detrimental effect Phoebe had on Cole. Maybe he doesn't get some half-assed redemption built on her pain, but the presentation of their story is really problematic through and through, from both ends.
As for the rest, I think I already said that I think the first four seasons are ok, those the seasons I enjoy watching (where the sisters are actually likeable people) and they're nowhere near as terrible as the final seasons, but they're still heavily flawed. But ah well *shrug* different people see different things, and I for one - regardless whether it's a "feminist" reboot or not, would love to get a new take on the Halliwells. That or they could make the original The Craft series that was in the planning before Charmed came along and essentially stole that idea.
GraceK
Claps. YES!!!!
ChaseRules
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How much do you think they have from the first series in it . I hope they don't use the same names & try & make it a different version of the same show but try & make it different . Also I hope they don't use too magic in the show like they did in the final seasons of Charmed .
I like the Craft movie manly because it wasn't focused on the magic as much as what happened to them when they used it .
I think they would go for three P names, or three similar names (like three names on S or something), but I don't think they would use the same names and the same dynamics between the sisters. 🙂 I think they'd want it to feel more fresh and new than that.
Yeah, in the final seasons they kind of didn't care about their own "no magic for self-gain" rule anymore and kind of constantly abused magic, and indicated that their book of magic was just one of many... They kind of set up the spin off there themselves really.
The Craft is great, I agree. Not sure how it would have worked as a show, but I'm really curious at what might have been.
Apologies, I wasn't referring to any post by you but to the reference someone made to a youtube reviewer who said that she felt that the main focus of the sisters' stories were their love interests. Did not mean to reference any post by any member of the Board, I should have been more specific in my original post.
I've never felt that the focal points of the characters were their love interests, so I guess we're just reading the show very differently? Also don't remember Phoebe having that many love interests (but then again I don't watch the later seasons all that much and I think she does have a few later on). And while I think the show could have handled the Phoebe/Cole storyline better, much of Phoebe's Season 5 arc is her acknowledging why she can't be with Cole and working through her self-destructive issues, not to mention finally vanquishing him for real.