Question for the Bangelfolk - Spuffy in the comics

[Grace]

My thoughts exactly. Which is why I was curious as to how they got there since I stopped reading. It seems to be engaging for the fans still following and I thought there might have been an interesting development, but I perhaps shipper goggles are just hard to take off...

I imagine it's very appealing to a segment of the fandom because Spike in S11 is basically a heroic victim, and Buffy makes sacrifices for him.

If you don't care about spoilers, Spike is rounded up by the government along with other magical creatures, including Willow, and Buffy volunteers to go with them to the camp. The vampires aren't given enough rations, so Buffy feeds Spike herself, and then to avoid having to continue doing that, she becomes a trustee, a dubious position ethically, to secure extra rations for Spike. And, for his part, Spike is quite protective of Buffy and he's reluctant about feeding from her, etc.

So if you like this version of Spike, and I'm sure many do, then it makes sense that you would like the relationship, and if you don't find the development to this point to be believable or in character, then it just seems hollow.

Oh yeah, I'm totally on board with that one. I've written probably at least two grad school essays' worth of meta on souls in the Buffyverse, but it essentially boils down to this: to be soulless is to be irredeemably evil and selfish, always, and to be soulful is to have free will, and thus, to have the whole spectrum of morality open to you.

I love your soul meta! I feel like this, too, is being really messed with in the comics this season, to fit with the theme of government mistreatment of supernatural beings. But I don't think Gage is too picky about the rules of the universe. He had a werewolf fighting and even talking in wolf form when it wasn't the full moon! (There's a loophole, in that maybe "new" werewolves post-S9 are different from classic ones, but we were never told that, so it just seems sloppy.)

 

[Kairos]

I love your soul meta! I feel like this, too, is being really messed with in the comics this season, to fit with the theme of government mistreatment of supernatural beings. But I don't think Gage is too picky about the rules of the universe. He had a werewolf fighting and even talking in wolf form when it wasn't the full moon! (There's a loophole, in that maybe "new" werewolves post-S9 are different from classic ones, but we were never told that, so it just seems sloppy.)

Hm....maybe it was a London werewolf? I think I recall the Fairweather sisters speaking to one in Magic Town at the end of A&F S9 -- one of the spontaneously generated new magical creatures, so that might serve as acknowledgment of the loophole.

 

[Grace]

Ha! OK, I guess I'll allow it. But deportation back to the UK was floated as an option for getting Spike out of the camp by Riley. So this werewolf would have had to immigrate to the U.S. and not have deportation back be an option for some reason. Maybe it's only possible for VIPs. 🙂
 
While we're at it, does anyone have an explanation for the lack of smoke here? I'm seeing definite naked wristage 🙂

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Ha! OK, I guess I'll allow it. But deportation back to the UK was floated as an option for getting Spike out of the camp by Riley. So this werewolf would have had to immigrate to the U.S. and not have deportation back be an option for some reason. Maybe it's only possible for VIPs. 🙂
 
While we're at it, does anyone have an explanation for the lack of smoke here? I'm seeing definite naked wristage 🙂

Oh for Pete's sake... just let her tell him I love you and be done with it. What issue is this? I have seen this panel before but never read this issue.

 

[Grace]

Oh for Pete's sake... just let her tell him I love you and be done with it. What issue is this? I have seen this panel before but never read this issue.

Ha! I had the exact same reaction. This is from S11 #7 Disempowered. (It's a huge leap, I know, but I'm going to go ahead and guess that there will be a big Buffy-tells-Spike-she-loves-him panel in the final issue next month.)

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Ha! I had the exact same reaction. This is from S11 #7 Disempowered. (It's a huge leap, I know, but I'm going to go ahead and guess that there will be a big Buffy-tells-Spike-she-loves-him panel in the final issue next month.)

Inevitable. I'm just going to go ahead and vomit now and get it over with lol.

 

[EarthLogic]

Inevitable. I'm just going to go ahead and vomit now and get it over with lol.

*goes to fetch bucket*

So what'll happen after she says it? Like, what next?

 

[Mrs Gordo]

*goes to fetch bucket*

So what'll happen after she says it? Like, what next?

Wedding, vampire platinum haired babies, house in the burbs, Netflix subscription so Spike can watch Passion re-runs.

WHAT IF - the stuff that Angel is doing to change the past* in his comic TOTALLY changes everything in the Buffy comics? One can only dream....

 

[EarthLogic]

Wedding, vampire platinum haired babies, house in the burbs, Netflix subscription so Spike can watch Passion re-runs.

WHAT IF - the stuff that Angel is doing to change the past* in his comic TOTALLY changes everything in the Buffy comics? One can only dream....

But then he would have changed people's lives once again without their consent. Not much a recovery from his Twilight days - writers still giving him the stoopid-pills, I see.

Also, I really dislike time travel.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

But then he would have changed people's lives once again without their consent. Not much a recovery from his Twilight days - they still seem to be giving him the stoopid-pills.

Also, I really dislike time travel.

You are right. I don't know anything anymore. LOL. I am anxious to see how BTVS Season 11 ends.

 

[thetopher]

So, how do you Bangel folk feel about the ending to Spuffy in the comics?

What did it mean to you that they broke up the way they did and, as of S12, Angel is now single again?
Pretty pleased? Hopeful? Disappointed? Frustrated? Genuinely curious because I was very ambivalent about it all.

 

[Mylie]

So, how do you Bangel folk feel about the ending to Spuffy in the comics?

What did it mean to you that they broke up the way they did and, as of S12, Angel is now single again?
Pretty pleased? Hopeful? Disappointed? Frustrated? Genuinely curious because I was very ambivalent about it all.

I'm pleased. I love open endings and I think Buffy ends at a relatively good place in s12.

I don't necessarily think this means Buffy/Angel will reunite or anything but I like that it remains a possibility. I don't need it and I've always been satisfied about their story without the happy ending. For me, they are heroes before anything else and that will always matter more than their relationship, so as long as their connection remains, I'm happy. We got to see that they still care deeply about each other at the end and Angel wanting to stay really surprised me. But what I love most about it is that he's breaking his usual pattern here and there's a potential growth for the character.

I have to say that I am very confused about Buffy and Spike's break up between s11 and s12. It seems everything was going well and they seemed happy. There were no external obstacle to the relationship. They just broke up because they kind of « didn't feel it » ? Because it came out of nowhere to me, I can't really take their relationship seriously now. I feel like if they can't work when everything is going well, then they are just not supposed to be together. Basically, the comics reaffirmed for me that Spike isn't it for Buffy. I can't say I'm disappointed about that.

 

[thetopher]

I have to say that I am very confused about Buffy and Spike's break up between s11 and s12. It seems everything was going well and they seemed happy. There were no external obstacle to the relationship. They just broke up because they kind of « didn't feel it » ? Because it came out of nowhere to me, I can't really take their relationship seriously now.

I just kinda assumed that Buffy was stuck in a rut and Spike was a big part of that. She just wasn't really 'progressing' with any life goals. In S12 Willow and Xander have really grown and developed themselves; Xander has a family and Willow had set up that Wicca community center. Basically they'd both moved on with their lives and Buffy hadn't.
And then with the break-up came the sudden impetuous for change; Buffy decides to join the police force and pursuit a career. She seems buddy-buddy with Faith and more content now that her life is moving towards something.
I kinda took this to mean that Buffy dating a vampire is bad for her in the long run, that she remains almost 'static' along with her immortal beau. It's also why I'm firmly convinced Angel did the right thing in leaving in S3. He and Buffy can't be together until he shanshu's and becomes human.

Although Angel has shown a greater capacity to change and evolve than Spike, part of the side-effect of having his own show I suppose.

 

[Mylie]

I just kinda assumed that Buffy was stuck in a rut and Spike was a big part of that. She just wasn't really 'progressing' with any life goals. In S12 Willow and Xander have really grown and developed themselves; Xander has a family and Willow had set up that Wicca community center. Basically they'd both moved on with their lives and Buffy hadn't.
And then with the break-up came the sudden impetuous for change; Buffy decides to join the police force and pursuit a career. She seems buddy-buddy with Faith and more content now that her life is moving towards something.
I kinda took this to mean that Buffy dating a vampire is bad for her in the long run, that she remains almost 'static' along with her immortal beau. It's also why I'm firmly convinced Angel did the right thing in leaving in S3. He and Buffy can't be together until he shanshu's and becomes human.

Although Angel has shown a greater capacity to change and evolve than Spike, part of the side-effect of having his own show I suppose.

I really like this. It works perfectly with the show's vampire metaphor. And I guess that's why I appreciated s12. It did feel like Buffy wanted change. I'm just not completely sure that joining the police works for her character but I'll take it over the status quo.

 

[thetopher]

I'm just not completely sure that joining the police works for her character but I'll take it over the status quo.

Her career day prediction, Patrolling, 'stake-outs' (Buffy with a stake out, heh) and a love of jelly donuts. The signs were all there! 😀

 

[DayDreamer27]

If they had to keep going with Spuffy, at least the dysfunction & disgustingness of season 6 is left behind. But I can't help but see it as a Bangel rip-off. As someone said, Spike was just the replacement vamp with a soul who loves the slayer. If they were gonna go that route, why did we get rid of Bangel? I liked comic Spuffy better when it was Bangel.

Same reason I don't care for Cangel. Only way it'd have been worse is if Angel dated Faith. Same exact tale, just flip the slayers & vamps. lol

Plus I didn't care for them pushing Spuffy while taking a complete dump on Bangel and Angel.

 

[maskedgeekgirl]

No, the writers poisoned the well for me with season six. If they'd had Spike getting a soul after Buffy rejects him in "Crush", and season six had treated Soul!Spike as a new character who has to deal with returning from death and PTSD from all the horrifying memories of Soulless!Spike then I might have considered it. But after a full season of Spike abusing, manipulating and sexually assaulting Buffy I don't understand how the writers expect us to accept Spike back so readily. With Angel and Angelus they did a lot to distinguish them, both appearance wise and personality wise. But in season seven Soul!Spike is just treated as Soulless!Spike, but with a conscience. I don't understand how the writers can go from keeping Angelus in Vampface when he murdered Miss Calendar because they were afraid no one would want to see Angel and Buffy back together again after that, but thought the audience wouldn't bat an eye at Spike pursuing Buffy again after seeing him brutally assaulting her.

As for the comics, I dropped them after they brought back skinless Warren. That completely broke my suspension of disbelief and I haven't bothered with them since. I did see a panel from the comic where Buffy said that Spike loved her even without a soul, a sentiment that makes me want to burn all the comics. There is nothing redeemable about Soulless!Spike and blurring the lines between soulless and ensouled Spike makes it impossible for me to feel anything but loathing for Spike in any incarnation.

 

[CHK DeWilSon]

I've recently re-watch some episodes from series 4-7 and while I know I'll never be a Spuffy fan, I find myself a little bit more tolerant of Spike in some incidents unlike before where I just plain out hated him and wanted him gone.

I still wish that Spuffy had NEVER EVER happen in any shape or form but don't wish to see Spike repeatedly stake in the heart which I consider an improvement on my extremely negative feelings towards him before!

As for the comics. I don't think there is anything that I have heard about concerning BAngel or Spuffy that I have enjoyed knowing.
Starting with the unbelievable character assassination of Angel in the form of 'Twilight'?! I mean SERIOUSLY with that particular name but also with it once again having Angel in some form be once again responsible for the death of so many even though he was possessed. The character of Angel as we know him to be will of course carry the guilt of those lives that are gone even though he was technically not in his own mind and soul.
Boy it got to the stage at one point where I even had the thought that maybe just kill him off if this is Angel's life where he continually has to be tortured into somehow having to bare the burden of killing so many humans when not in control of his body because that won't matter to Angel, he WILL still feel responsible.
And then his and Buffy's relationship once again showing that it can't work because it will ultimately cause the death of so many. WE GET IT ALREADY JW!

As for Spuffy in the comics. When I hear certain things about it like Spike having to drink Buffy's blood in order to live, it just makes my blood boil! Is there nothing of the BAngel love story that isn't rehash and twisted to then be put into the Spuffy relationship?!

The only saving grace for me is that someone had the sense to end the Spuffy relationship on the final comic series. I was beyond thrilled with that. It had got to the point where it wasn't about Angel and Buffy ending up together in the end but more IMPORTANTLY that Spike was not Buffy's endgame.
I adore BAngel and always will but I'm ok with them not getting to be endgame on the show or comics HOWEVER I would be absolutely not ok with Spuffy still being together at the end of the comic series so the way it all ended was satisfying for me.