Spike or Angel.

[WillowFromBuffy]

This really isn't the place to be antagonising fan-girls.

men don't really obesses over bad girls,

They don't, do they?

what is up with the spell check on this forum?

Some of us check our own spelling, because our device is set to a different language.

 

[Taake]

I was not generalizing but it is very common and true that most bad boy characters have a legion of fan girls and these fan girls are the drivers of the ship they like. even JK Rolwing noticed it in her harry potter series commenting on Draco Malfoys legion of fan girls. jk rowling said it bothered her. she never got why girls will want hermione with draco or why girls loved draco. good thing harry potter became global phenomenon and was not reduced to a TV CW/WB show, because the showed would have ruined harry and ron just to prop up draco and let him get with hermione.


its a pattern

pacey from dawson creek

damon from vampire dairies

chuck bass from gossip girl

draco from harry potter

if you notice, in all the shows, many of their female fans really wanted these boys to end up with the main girl. when it was clear the relationship was unhealthy. i think it is more of young females fantasy. girls love bad boy characters and think they can change them or something.

also outside of harry potter, this bad boy characters went on to ruin their shows because they started getting too much focus and attention above other characters. season 7 of buffy was a spike worship season. other characters became written to be stupid and lame so the bad boys could shine and look more worthy for the girl. see the buffy episode were they all decided to kick her out of her own house including dawn, giles, willow and spike was the only one who had her back.

notice also in buffy, once the spike obsession started in season 5, the writers ruined riley to make way for the spuffy thing.
this is part of the reason i like angel better and felt he was more right for buffy because angel tells buffy, he had no interests in bad girls like faith. he wanted buffy to go to the light. unlike spike who wanted buffy to embrace his darkness.

men don't really obesses over bad girls,

women should stop obsessing over bad boys.


......................

what is up with the spell check on this forum?

This is not an argument, when you adress Spuffy fans as a group of female fans obsessed with a bad boy, you are generalizing. Angel fits very well into this stereotype as well (older, dangerous, handsome boy whom the MC 'tames'), yet you don't seem as prone to dismiss Bangel fans as just obsessed female fans.

This is not your soap box for what women should and shouldn't do.

It is fine to discuss the ins and outs of the characters and ships, but be careful about general statements about fans whose perception of the show you ultimately know very little about. You are making assumptions, not drawing conclusions.

If you have a problem with the forum, with spell check or the like, you can ask a question in the Angel Investigations forum.

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[spikenbuffy]

Lol. Even my two brothers who are males and hetero love Spike and thinks he's totally badass.

 

[CHK DeWilSon]

Han the hard bitten cynical mercenary who only cares about himself meets the self righteous warrior princess leader whose trying to save the galaxy. Dislike turns to attraction then to love. Sound familiar ?

And that is what happened between Buffy and Spike.

Well they were always sexually attracted to each other. JM admitted he always played it that way and didn't SMG originally round S4/5 time asking for a relationship with Spike but Joss at the time said no more Vampires. Seems like the dislike is with how the writers did it as opposed to actually having it

I must have miss-seen Spike caring and loving Drusilla for over 100 years?! Because of course, Spike had only care for himself until his one and only Buffy came along. 🙄

Yeah for me you are just grasping at straws to fit into your narrative about Buffy and Spike being anything remotely like Leia and Han. Two who were in a pretty healthy relationship virtually from the beginning. Bickering and barting but with a growing respect for one another.

Two equals who had each other's backs. They are a great example of relationship that I would love to be in and not anything that Buffy and Spike and their 'relationship' portrayed onscreen.

And if I wanted to I could pick a few bits here and there from Leia and Han's relationship that is similar to how I view Buffy and Angel but I don't feel I have to because BAngel stand on their own as unique and special to me from others.

 

[spikenbuffy]

Faith who is a bad girl is often seen as badass, even in Youtube when people say that she is badass in a scene in Consequence when she throw violently Xander in her bed and strangle him nearly to death lol.

Angel is often seen as badass when he lets people die at W&H in reunion in ATS S2 or in Conviction when he has no pity for a guy and kills him.

Giles is also seen as badass in Band Candy when he 's sexy as hell and hits the police man.

I just think people because of human nature love violence and also find confidence attractive in people and characters. Bad boys characters has that.

 

[RomanticSoul]

Lol. Even my two brothers who are males and hetero love Spike and thinks he's totally badass.

Of course. It's not hard to see why. Spike is complete wish fulfillment for men, not just women. He's snarky, he's funny, he wears a leather coat and more importantly, he can do whatever he wants without consequences. What's not to love there if you are a male watching the show?

The list is endless as to the fantasies that Spike represents for male viewers.

 

[spikenbuffy]

Btw plenty of people who are team Bangel and Spuffy mostly love Angel or Spike and don't care about Buffy which I find sad. It's not just fans of Spuffy who just love Spike.

Plus there's not just Spike fans who are Spike fans because Spike is seen as badass and sexy as hell and fantasize about Spike. Plenty of Angel fans seems to me to also fantasize on Angel because for them he's sexy as hell.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Mostly, Spike just fulfils my fantasy of being cuckolded in a wheelchair.

 

[nightshade]

Please keep general sweeping statements out of this. We will close this thread if this keeps continuing.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

I don't agree at all with the description of Spike as a bad boy. To me, Spike is a nice guy—a nice guy who feigns to be a bad boy, but who really isn't. Parker is a bad boy. He is a player. A nice guy is much more conceited.

 

[CHK DeWilSon]

What a load of B S. How dare you insult people just for liking a character in a fantasy show 😡

That same argument could apply to Angel or Anya or Andrew or Giles or even Buffy herself......

I think there needs to be some calming down as yes we are talking about fictional characters.

From what I seen usually when it comes to the good guy versus the bad guy stereo type, the consensus is that that the bad boys tend to be more popular because of how they are viewed as misunderstood.

Spike falls under the category of the wisecracking, arrogant type and end up seemingly being popular. There are others like Ben from Felicity who are bad boys but don't have the humorous side to them.

Now Ben was someone I did like and that may make me be perceived as a hypocrite for liking a bad boy character however I view Ben as a character with vulnerability in the way I don't with Spike.

I do feel it is usual for fans to me
prefer the Spike types of characters whether they are seen as only bad boys or just wisecracking guys especially if paired with males that are slotted into the role of the good guy where they are either just the nice types like Noel, Scott, Dawson or broody types like Angel, Ben.

When the shows have been on for a number of years the lines do get blurry with the character traits changing over time but they are still seen as one type of guy or another.

Even with Angel and Spike they don't completely fit into the roles of just a good guy versus the bad guy (although I'll never view Spike as a true good guy). But it's roles that they have been fitted into my head when I think about the both of them.

And nothing that is happening onscreen on various other tv shows makes me see the view of bad boy characters popularity changing any time soon.

 

[AngelBuffy]

This is not an argument, when you adress Spuffy fans as a group of female fans obsessed with a bad boy, you are generalizing. Angel fits very well into this stereotype as well (older, dangerous, handsome boy whom the MC 'tames'), yet you don't seem as prone to dismiss Bangel fans as just obsessed female fans.

This is not your soap box for what women should and shouldn't do.

It is fine to discuss the ins and outs of the characters and ships, but be careful about general statements about fans whose perception of the show you ultimately know very little about. You are making assumptions, not drawing conclusions.

If you have a problem with the forum, with spell check or the like, you can ask a question in the Angel Investigations forum.

Angel Investigations

"We Help The Helpless" For site help and feedback from our favorite Private Eye! General questions not about board functions should be posted in the appropriate other forum. Please be sure to read the FAQ before you post.

buffy-boards.com

Angel was not a bad boy. I see angel more like ryan from the OC or john snow from game of thrones.

Spike was the ultimate bad boy stereotype.

 

[thrasherpix]

Too off topic so I don't want to expand on this, just share my observations that I know plenty of men love the bad girls (though possibly because a rule in media is that bad girls are more sexualized). Heck, after the movie Serenity came out, I was on a board (that was not about Joss Whedon in any way) in which many men talked about how they wanted to marry River Tam after the crazy girl slaughtered reavers (which was a good thing for her to do, but I'd be worried about who else she might slaughter...Jayne really does have a point about her).

And btw, though I was not around "typical people" so it isn't necessarily "typical," I knew plenty of women who favored Faith over Buffy (just as plenty of guys did).

 

[Btvs fan]

People go on about Spike but Anyas bodycount was far higher and it wasn't (until Selfless) played for laughs. Yet they didn't have problem with her and Xander. I'm just saying...

 

[Mrs Gordo]

People go on about Spike but Anyas bodycount was far higher

Do we know this canonically to be true?

Yet they didn't have problem with her and Xander.

I mean - Buffy goes and tries to kill her in s7 so she can stop her murderous ways so I feel like that's the scoobies have a problem with her, at least when she is in her demon form?

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Do we know this canonically to be true?

I guess that depends on whether you blame her for the Russian revolution or not. We don't know of a single person she has killed by hand.

 

[Btvs fan]

Do we know this canonically to be true?



I mean - Buffy goes and tries to kill her in s7 so she can stop her murderous ways so I feel like that's the scoobies have a problem with her, at least when she is in her demon form?

In Dopplegangland she teams up with Vamp willow and orders human willows death.

She always talks about the people she killed. In into the woods she made a guy combust who then set fire to his whole village. Yeah shes killed people

 

[Puppet]

I may be remembering wrong, but doesn't Anya mention something in-canon about her kill count being higher than Spike and Angel combined?

 

[Mrs Gordo]

In Dopplegangland she teams up with Vamp willow and orders human willows death.

She always talks about the people she killed. In into the woods she made a guy combust who then set fire to his whole village. Yeah shes killed people

Haha I certainly wasn't making any allegations that she "has never" killed people. I was asking if we know canonically if she has killed more people than Spike. I'm curious if you had seen anything on the shows directly related to that statement.

 

[Btvs fan]

Haha I certainly wasn't making any allegations that she "has never" killed people. I was asking if we know canonically if she has killed more people than Spike. I'm curious if you had seen anything on the shows directly related to that statement.

Well if Shes been doing it for a 1000 years and Spike was only doing it since 1880, odds are her body count will be higher