Spike or Angel.

[Antho]

I think its because of that one flashback scene where Angel sees Buffy for the first time and she's sucking a lollipop, it's kind of creepy.

I do understand you find that creepy and I would honestly prefer that this scene doesn’t exist.
What I don’t understand is, generally, people who use this argument are Spike’s fan and when I see « Angel is a pedaophilia and I love Spike « in the same comment I’m always wondering who this person is kidding ? Because if they really think what Angel did is pedaophilia, they should think the same thing of a man who build a robot of the women he loves just for having sex. I’m not attacking you, I’m not attacking Spike, but can we all agree that these people haven’t logic !

 

[EarthLogic]

Ugh, I really don't want to get into this argument but I'm going to despite myself.

Because if they really think what Angel did is pedaophilia, they should think the same thing of a man who build a robot of the women he loves just for having sex.

Paedophilia and building a creepy sex robot are NOT the same thing. The former is an abhorrent crime against children while the latter despite being incredibly disturbing, is not illegal. (But @Antho I think what you're really referring to is the creep-factor related to the 'following-Buffy-around' concept in both cases, so my comment isn't directed at you specifically - apologies if this comes across as hostile)
Which brings me to....

FFS Angel is NOT a paedophile!!! Paedophilia is defined as having a sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Buffy was a teenager - in her mid-late teens phase mind you - and by the time Angel actually met her she was perfectly capable of asserting her own agency. Why is this still being brought up in fandom? We can by all means talk about the finer points r.e. age of consent but I thought we'd moved past ridiculous accusations like this (and I include the equally ridiculous accusations thrown at Spike as well - though I can't remember what that particular fan-favourite retort was in those mudslinging matches)

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

the latter despite being incredibly disturbing, is not illegal

I don't know. I think maybe making a sex robot in the likeness of a woman you are stalking may be illegal.

And Angel is definitely not a paedophile. SMG may look a little girly in s1, but from s2 onwards she is all woman.

The age difference is certainly an issue. I don't know how to feel about that. It is addressed by the show to some degree. I guess I don't think too much about it.

 

[flow]

Because if they really think what Angel did is pedaophilia, they should think the same thing of a man who build a robot of the women he loves just for having sex.

I usually try not to take part in threads like this. The questions "Who is the best boyfriend", "Who loved Buffy more" and "Who, did Buffy love more" imply, that there is a measurement unit for love and that there could be a contest of relationships.
The truth is, that both Angel and Spike are important characters for the show and you shouldn`t rate your Lovers (except, your out on a girls evening and have had at least three Mai Tais.)

Comparing Angel and Spike just goes on and on and on in cycles and it is driving me nuts. Of course getting himself a buffybot to play checkers with, wasn`t the brightest thing, Spike ever did. He certainely isn`t a saint. And Angel isn`t either. But the only time I want to point my finger at Angels preference for lollipops, is, when someone, rants about that buffybot. But whoever did that, probably was triggered by a Spike fan, who went on about the age of consent in California in 1999. And whoever did that, was probably mad, because someone else had said before, that Spike was a creepy stalker. And on and on and on....

I would love to a have a sensible conversation with Bangels over Buffybots and lollipops. A conversation, without accusations, where no one wants to emphasizes his own point of view but wants to understand the other ones point of view.

FFS Angel is NOT a paedophile!!!

To be precise - no one in this thread has so far mentioned, that Angel is a paedophile. The term was brought up first by @BuffyBot22 , stating, that he was NOT a paedophile.

flow

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I don't know. I think maybe making a sex robot in the likeness of a woman you are stalking may be illegal.

I think this is an example of the law not catching up to technology... because you know said technology does not exist.
 

To be precise - no one in this thread has so far mentioned, that Angel is a paedophile. The term was brought up first by @BuffyBot22 , stating, that he was NOT a paedophile.

The comment was made by @Dora upstream.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

I think this is an example of the law not catching up to technology... because you know said technology does not exist.

Really? I won't argue law with a lawyer ... or anyone really ... but do we not all have certain rights when it comes to our likeness?

Couldn't Buffy at least have sued him for harassment, since he brought the thing outside and had sex with it in the graveyard?

 

[flow]

The comment was made by @Dora upstream.

Ooops, I completely missed that comment. Sorry, my mistake ! But now I have seen it, I want to at least point out, that is was not brought up by a Spuffy or a Spike Fan.

flow

 

[EarthLogic]

Yeah I'm not clued in on the law regarding sex robots - though I haven't heard of a law specifically against it - but the stalker aspect of it would probably provide enough grounds for a restraining order at least!

 

[Antho]

Paedophilia and building a creepy sex robot are NOT the same thing. The former is an abhorrent crime against children while the latter despite being incredibly disturbing, is not illegal. (But @Antho I think what you're really referring to is the creep-factor related to the 'following-Buffy-around' concept in both cases, so my comment isn't directed at you specifically - apologies if this comes across as hostile)
Which brings me to....

My apologies because what I said isn’t very clear. You’re right I was mostly referring to the creep-factor of course. The fact is I hate this word « Paedophilia » and I hate it even more when it is associate to Angel or Spike because I love theses characters and if people think at them being « paedophile » I ‘m wondering what does it say about me or us, people who love the characters. I allow no one to tell me that I’m a fan of this kind of things !

 

[EarthLogic]

I usually try not to take part in threads like this. The questions "Who is the best boyfriend", "Who loved Buffy more" and "Who, did Buffy love more" imply, that there is a measurement unit for love and that there could be a contest of relationships.

This is why I don't get involved in these threads. It goes round and round until people get angry and nobody ever changes their mind.

And whoever did that, was probably mad, because someone else had said before, that Spike was a creepy stalker.

Well.... that part is true to an extent. He was a creepy stalker in S5!
 

Ooops, I completely missed that comment. Sorry, my mistake ! But now I have seen it, I want to at least point out, that is was not brought up by a Spuffy or a Spike Fan.

flow

Yeah I know although 97% of the time it usually is, at which point the throwing of mud and counter-insults usually starts - *sigh*. Not by you of course - you're very nice! 🙂

 

[flow]

but the stalker aspect of it would probably provide enough grounds for a restraining order at least!

Restraining him from Buffy or from the Buffybot ?

Couldn't Buffy at least have sued him for harassment, since he brought the thing outside and had sex with it in the graveyard?

Maybe it could be considered as indecent behaviour in public places ?

@Antho, I am sorry, you misunderstood me ! I wasn`t angry, I just wanted to say, that I would love to talk about it, without accusations. maybe there will be a time, when it will be possible 🙂

flow

 

[EarthLogic]

Restraining him from Buffy or from the Buffybot ?

Buffy of course! I dunno about the bot - this is where the law would get fuzzy. Buffy could sue for use of her image without consent, but the bot was made by/for him, so he could technically argue that it's his property...

Maybe it could be considered as indecent behaviour in public places ?

There's definitely a law against that!

There really are a number of grounds on which Buffy could have sued/ had him arrested, had he been subject to human law.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Maybe it could be considered as indecent behaviour in public places ?

I don't know legal stuff. Defamation? Using someone's likeness without permission?

It would not be legal to manufacture a sex doll in SMG's likeness, would it? This is pure academic speculation.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I don't know legal stuff. Defamation? Using someone's likeness without permission?

On the civil side, not unless he is profiting from her likeness. And defamation is actionable based on what a person says or what a person writes so wouldn't apply.

I am not up to speed on the legalities of sex dolls and their likeness. And I'll tell you guys, I don't really want to be? lol.
 
@WillowFromBuffy - LOL that's not how laws work. Laws are written by politicians bought out by big money lobbiests. Crap I said I wasn't going to get political right?

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

@WillowFromBuffy - LOL that's not how laws work. Laws are written by politicians bought out by big money lobbiests. Crap I said I wasn't going to get political right?

It is half true, innit? Lawyers write the actual laws. And you make sure to make them so complicated that only lawyers can read them.

 

[Dora]

Sorry I did not say Angel was a paedophile, what I meant that personally I just get a paedophilia feeling that its not right in some way, sort of creepy that a 240 year old man with all the experiences that brings, falls in love with a sixteen year old girl and acts on it on her seventeenth Birthday
As with Spike, making a sex doll identical to someone you personally know has got to be illegal in someway ,stealing clothing is definitely illegal and stalking is a crime
Although in S5 Riley showed to be a selfish immature A/hole he was Buffy's only long term human boyfriend

Back on subject as I said Spike was never Buffy's boyfriend so it has to be Angel and Buffy loved Angel

SO ANGEL

 

[BuffyBot22]

I usually try not to take part in threads like this. The questions "Who is the best boyfriend", "Who loved Buffy more" and "Who, did Buffy love more" imply, that there is a measurement unit for love and that there could be a contest of relationships.
The truth is, that both Angel and Spike are important characters for the show and you shouldn`t rate your Lovers (except, your out on a girls evening and have had at least three Mai Tais.)

Comparing Angel and Spike just goes on and on and on in cycles and it is driving me nuts. Of course getting himself a buffybot to play checkers with, wasn`t the brightest thing, Spike ever did. He certainely isn`t a saint. And Angel isn`t either. But the only time I want to point my finger at Angels preference for lollipops, is, when someone, rants about that buffybot. But whoever did that, probably was triggered by a Spike fan, who went on about the age of consent in California in 1999. And whoever did that, was probably mad, because someone else had said before, that Spike was a creepy stalker. And on and on and on....

I would love to a have a sensible conversation with Bangels over Buffybots and lollipops. A conversation, without accusations, where no one wants to emphasizes his own point of view but wants to understand the other ones point of view.



To be precise - no one in this thread has so far mentioned, that Angel is a paedophile. The term was brought up first by @BuffyBot22 , stating, that he was NOT a paedophile.

flow

That's not true, I did not bring it up first, if you read earlier in the thread someone else called him one and I defended him

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I want to see an episode of Spike and Buffy in court arguing over the Buffybot. Could be the only time we see Spike in a suit and Buffy looking professional.

 

[EarthLogic]

I am not up to speed on the legalities of sex dolls and their likeness. And I'll tell you guys, I don't really want to be? lol.

Well you might need to be! We're approaching the age of the post-human!😉

 

[Dora]

I want to see an episode of Spike and Buffy in court arguing over the Buffybot. Could be the only time we see Spike in a suit and Buffy looking professional.

It would be a short case as courts happen in day light